The creation of man.

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Enmos, Mar 9, 2009.

  1. nietzschefan Thread Killer Valued Senior Member

    You would worship a god that makes mistakes, that solves them with nuclear weapons? That is not even a god, but simply a more advanced life form?
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  3. theobserver is a simple guy... Registered Senior Member

    I would say looking at the tree of knowledge is quite alright provided you don't attempt to satisfy(the process of eating) yourself using that knowledge. Most of us try to utilize the knowledge to advance ourselves and gain more power and fame. The genuine teacher would be the one who hesitate to consider himself as a teacher. A genuine scientist would be the one who know why things happen and still don't attempt to use his knowledge to make things easier for him.
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  5. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

    You know, CheskiChips...
    You didn't agree with one word from anyone you just quoted, StrangersinStrangeLA, Swarm or myself, and we didn't even really agree with one another.
    There is a real good chance at least one of us had something of merit to say.
    That's just statistics.

    Maybe you should stop trying to figure out hidden mysteries by the letter of the law.
    It didn't work for the Jews in Jesus day, and it doesn't work now either.
    I'm sorry. It doesn't come that way.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009
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  7. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

    I said it was man that used the weapons on himself, not God using them on man.
    There were no mistakes, it all had a purpose in the long run.
    A lot has been going on "traditional religions" don't reveal to men.

    Mankind has been hosts for the enemies of God by the desires in his own evil heart.
    It's not been a mistake God had to destroy the world.
    Every unseen spiritual law we crossed brought us under legal control of a fallen empire of His enemies.
    They are His enemy and ours too.
    Ever hear; "the enemy of my enemy is my friend?"
    Abraham was called "the friend of God", so God warned him about what He was about to do.
    He has warned us too.

    God gave us His word to protect us from this.
    He even came and suffered death to offer man a way of excape.
    The change has to start in the heart.
    All you have to do is ask.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009
  8. CheskiChips Banned Banned

    I only quoted clear abhorrent mistakes. Not everything everyone said.

    How has figuring out law by the letter of law not worked? Jews have the lowest rates of crime in their cities. American cities with the highest Jewish populations have the lowest crime rates in the country...
    Not to mention Jews have outlasted how many great cultures? Greece? Persia? Rome? Byzantines? What other culture after 2000 years regained their homeland?

    Biblical truth is acquired by understanding the underlying system. That underlying system is the work of Midrash and Mishnaic writings. Christian Theologians have been diligent to religious study for perhaps 500 years, before that they were monarchies. Jews have been diligent for at least 3000 years. Christian morals have degraded time and time again because they have no law...Jewish morals haven't changed because we have a law independent of the nation in which we live.
  9. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

    The laws are spiritual not natural.
    They couldn't see that.

    You've heard "thou shall not commit adultery" but if you look upon a woman to lust after her in your heart, you've committed adultery with her in your heart already.

    It's really about the conversion of the heart of man, not do's and don t's.
    The warfare we are immersed in is unseen and spiritual, not carnal.
    A man could never reach perfection by his own abilities trying to follow the letter of the law, while at the same time fighting the carnal desires his own evil heart.
    But when a man surrenders his life to be made into God's image by the power of God's Spirit, the heart is converted and becomes a dwelling place fit for God.
    Then with the laws of God written on the tables of the human heart, that life of God is lived out of man automatically.

    That is why the law was given...
    Not to be intellectualized, secularized, traditionalized, and turned into rules about the washing of pots and pans and the keeping of certain days.
    It was given to man to show us where we were wrong, that we couldn't keep it, and why we needed a Saviour.
    Then to make man the habitation, the dwelling place, the tabernacle of the living God.
    That has alway been His purpose from the creation of Adam, and that has never changed.

    For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

    Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

    Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2009
  10. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

    What you quoted from me was no mistake & had nothing to do with whether I read the story (I have.). I pointed out logic flaws in his claim. For that I didn't need to know the story.
    Jews outlasted many "great" cultures just as the Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc, etc, etc.
    Jews didn't regain "their homeland". England stole it from the natives & gave it to the Jews.
  11. CheskiChips Banned Banned

    Those cultures didn't maintain complex laws that are at least 2000 years old. They changed their laws as the socio-climate changed.

    Jews have no spiritual writings? Howcome the Talmud is filled with poetry?
  12. Shadow1 Valued Senior Member


    in my relegion, God, created humans,
    humans in general, called in a specific relegion tense in arabuic (bachar) for all living things, that walked on it's feet, and had an intelligence, (insen) is for the homosapiens, us,
    my relegion beleive that, we are not the same humans, who lived 25000 years ago, or more,
    in quran, there was some evidences, showing that, we werent the first humans sent to earth, it was there others before us, before Adam, they were other humans, but, not like us, they had different DNA, but a similar body structure,
    also, life on earth, existed long before humans, and it's proven by science, and also by the relegion,
    i had a topic about that:
    i had also a topic, talking about an the existence, of a completly different life form of ours, also others similar to ours in other planets, wich i think it mentioned to be there 6 more planets, and with earth; 7, that have life,
    well, at least i beleive in that, here's the topic's link also,

    we also beleive, in the Djin, wich he's another being, but a non-material being, not from matter, as we all know, matter, is just about 10 percent, ok, let's say 20 percent of the univerce, so, what about the rest of the 80 percent,with the dark matter and the anti-matter, let's say, 50 percent, what about the other 50,
    anyway, as for me, i beleive in the Djin,

    there's also, another kind o intellegint life, barbarians, that one day, will come threw a worhole, and almost destroy all the life on earth,
    quran beleive in the wormholes,

    about the Djin, some explain, that they live in another dimention, and others, say, they live with us, but we cant know them, feel them, or see them, they are non material, even we cant imagine them, cause even our imagination, is related to our material reality,
    lol, i love this smilies: :itold:
  13. skaught The field its covered in blood Valued Senior Member

    There are many interpretations of genesis. A few passages earlier, there is an alternate creation story. Its more concise:

    26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

    27 So God created man in his own image,
    in the image of God he created him;
    male and female he created them.

    Other sources suggest that this passage was gods first attempt to create man and woman. However, he created them equally. He made Adam and Lilith. But Lilith, seeing herself as equal to Adam, would not submit to him. She would not do what he asked, and she would not sleep with him. She fought with Adam, an with God. As a result, God either banished her from Eden, or she left, depending on the source. With Lilith gone, Adam was alone and that is why a few passages later, you come to the passages that you quoted above. God realized that if he made another woman the same way he did Lilith, she and Adam would have the same problem. So he made Eve from one of Adams ribs, that she may be made form Adam, and as a result. Will submit to him.

    This is not to suggest that women are inferior to men, or unequal. The particular problem that Lilith had, was that she refused to lay underneath Adam while they copulated. She felt that because they were equal, then too should their copulation happen in an equal way with neither overpowering or "laying on top" of the other. This made copulation, and therefore reproduction, impossible for Adam and Lilith. God needed to make a woman from a piece of Adam, so that by a man and a woman coming together, they are in a sense, becoming one. The man being reunited with a part of himself.

    This is what is meant by the passage

    Gen, 2:24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

    This is also what is meant in Gen, 2:20...But for Adam no suitable helper was found...

    Notice "suitable". He had a helper, she just was not "suitable". If no one had existed prior to Eve, it probably would read "but for Adam, no helper was found.

    Some bible scholars and literalists suggest that Lilith was Cains wife. When Cain was kicked out of Eden, the bible states that he found a wife, but one is left to wonder, if only Adam, Eve, and Cain existed, who could Cains wife have possibly been? Literalists suggest that Lilith seduced Cain and Cain was willing to submit to her, due to his loneliness, and allow her to "lay on top" of him.

    Prior to the eating of the fruit, the earth was to be a paradise. God created Humans to be the caretakers of it. You see, in a divine act of self discovery, God found that he was made of, well, everything! Including "wrath". He wanted to remove this aspect of himself, so he "vacated" it so to speak. This created a very large "vacuum". Which god soon found was growing. He was not able to habitate this place himself because then he would have "wrath" as a part of himself again. He choose instead to find a suitable place and create life in it (this process could be a whole book in itself). He choose to wait until this life was capable and ready to hold within itself divine sparks of his positive attributes. Therefore, keeping the "wrath" in check. However, his "wrath" developed a personalty and consciousness of its own, and became personified by Satan. We know what he did in Genesis (this also needs elaboration, but is to lengthy to go into here). If Satan had never interfered. The Earth would have remained forever a paradise, an "oasis" so to speak in a vast ocean of chaos (The Universe) It was gods intent that man grow, and populate not just the earth, but to colonize the universe, to sort of "tame" his wrath. Since God was not able to live in the universe, he needed to make caretakers. Little pieces of himself that were capable of living in the universe. I could elaborate more, but I have to go to work.
  14. earth Registered Senior Member

    Well skaught, you didn't cite any sources referencing your elaboration.

    Here is one for you,
    So God created man in his own image,
    in the image of God he created him;
    male and female he created them.

    No he did not. Man wasn't created in the image of God, rather God copies the image of man.
  15. skaught The field its covered in blood Valued Senior Member

    My sources? Umm... the bible... I quoted the scriptures.
  16. Enmos Valued Senior Member


    Ok, but that a few passages later rather than earlier.

    You say that it doesn't mean that women are inferior to men or unequal, but it is clear that women are made, according to the bible, to submit to men. A woman that did not want to submit to men and demanded equal rights (Lilith) was not deemed 'suitable'.
    So I disagree.

    Nevertheless, they were his helpers.

    Yes, they always do a whole lot of assuming in order to even come close to something resembling a sensible story, but maybe they just didn't think things true and wrote a self-contradicting story full of impossibilities. All of which can of course be explained away by invoking Gods magical powers.
    By the way, I read somewhere that Lilith had magical powers that allowed her to hold power over God himself. If that was true, why couldn't she simply make Adam do as she pleased?

    I thought that was just the Garden of Eden. Outside the garden the Earth was barren.

    Well, so much for Gods omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence.. lol

    Thanks for the trouble you put into this extensive post Skaught. It's appreciated.
  17. skaught The field its covered in blood Valued Senior Member

    Opps, my bad...

    Hey, I'm not sayin it. This is just what I've read

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    I think its other peoples way of justifying it.

    I never read this of Lilith... I'll have to look into this...

    It was barren at the time if I remember clearly. But Part of our job was to help it grow and create the whole earth as a paradise.

    I don't believe in the bible, but it is one of my favorite pieces of mythology to study. I used to want to be a theologian, but I changed my mind a few years back.

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