The Creation

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Buffalo Roam, Dec 19, 2009.

  1. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The matter hasn't come up.
    So? We were talking about your attempt to assume the consequent, in a debate, and dismiss any arguments that failed to so assume.
    I'm calling you on bullshit. You will cease requiring that others accept your assumptions when those assumptions are the matter under discussion, or no debate - just more ridicule.
    Interesting that you, also, recognize the superiority of the position once granted. The motive for deflecting the debate away from that position and into gibberish concealing question-begging assumptions becomes obvious, no?
    Not necessarily, however - circumstantial. Ants don't, for example.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2010
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  5. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    OK, I'm giving up on LG as theism's spokesperson. Time for other viewpoints. I'm looking for answers, not science fiction. Surely some other theists would like to tackle some of the questions I posed him.

    Here are a couple:

    1. If God has been around forever then He needed a place to exist. Where did this place come from?

    2. God is given credit for creating life. If He has been alive forever then how did He create His own life?
     
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  7. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Well it does come up for Dennet et al but not you ... hence the difference in POV

    Actually we are talking about your assumption that there are no pedagogical issues of requirement that frame theistic claims

    hehe

    which is the general stalemate of all conflicts of value
    will the irony never end?
    Interesting that you can't see how such a modus operandi grants superiority regardless of the issue being discussed ....
    meh

    any idiot can parody technical language (and of course exceptionally talented comedians)
    I wasn't aware that ants had access to these
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    And for me, in relevant contexts. This hasn't been one of them.
    No. We are talking about your avoidance of relevant meaning in all of that verbiage.

    There is no such thing as a "pedagogical issue of requirement" that prevents you from discussing the existence of deity honestly on this forum - i.e. without first assuming the existence of your particular favorite.
     
  9. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    If you have a context for reductionism that doesn't rely on being reduced to something , well, thats certainly a novel concept ...

    on the contrary all you are doing is relying on parody to avoid having a meaningful discussion
    :shrug:


    huh?
    and you think its possibly sane to discuss a pedagogical issue of application bereft of the material that frame it?

    At the very least there are quite good reasons why theory tends to be taught before application .....
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Irrelevant to this discussion, and badly confused as usual (reductionism is its own context? A context somehow relies on being reduced?). The subject is no doubt fascinating in some other thread.
    Just inviting you to quit screwing around and either join the discussion or go away.
    I think it is possible to have a discussion about the existence of deity without a priori assuming the existence and nature of somebody's favorite God.

    In fact, I think that's the only way.

    And there's no pedagogy happening in your posts, so you don't have to worry about the framing of the issue of the application of whatever it is you are pleased to call a "theory". ( Or the issue of the framing of the application. Or the application of the issue of the framing. Or the framing of the application of the issue. Or whatever. )
     
  11. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    So you seem to think it is possible for humans to learn the truth about God all on their own, without God or anyone else helping them with that.

    Do you think this is a reasonable proposition?
    If yes, can you justify it?
     
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    If you could find the quote of mine that "seemed" to say any such thing, I will happily correct it or you, depending.
     
  13. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Could you just clarify, please:

    Do you think that it is possible for humans to learn the truth about God all on their own, without God or anyone else helping them with that?

    Yes or No?
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Go away.
     
  15. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    You are being unkind.
     
  16. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    well -um - the context for reductionism is physics (at least according to Dennet et al).
    I can't fathom why you are having difficulty with this, save for scrounging around for some sort of anal detail to inhibit progressive discussion.
    :shrug:


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    On the contrary, parody isn't generally celebrated as such a great means for such purposes ....

    I wasn't aware that attributing god with omni qualities or as the summum bonum is simply putting forward one's favourite god, as you pu tit .
    Sure.
    Its a standard technique of atheism to corrupt the terms that convey god,
    It makes forming an argument so much easier.
    hehe
    If there was a consensus that the facilitators of learning programs were the sole causes of fault, there would be no need for student grades.

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    still struggling at the point of theory I see ....
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    You really need to start paying attention to the meanings of your words. And don't slander Dennett like that - it's rude. He's not here to defend himself.
    Live and learn. Emphasis on the latter. Then stop doing it.
    Atheism has no techniques. Terms do not convey god. Nonsense is not argument. Assuming the consequent is nonsense.
    Haven't got there yet - no theory in sight. Having a lot of gibberish dancing on something does not mean there's a point of any kind, actually.

    No contrition or apology either, for some appallingly bad manners. Apparently this captain's going down with their shit.
     
  18. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    with patrons like yourself to speak in his defense, he's probably thankful

    sound advice for yourself also

    Sure it does - namely corrupting the definition of god to make for an easier argument. Think of it as a derivative of straw manning

    I guess if you were really clever you could provide an example of an idea that does not draw on terms ....

    Which, strangely enough, is more or less what parody operates out of ....

    Relying on parody alone to avoid the actual means of a claim is even greater nonsense
    must be your poor fund of knowledge

    bon voyage captain

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  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    It can't. Atheism is not the kind of thing that can "have" a technique.

    And no one here has made any attempts to corrupt any definitions, for any reason. Except you, possibly (it's hard to tell).
    No, it isn't. And it hasn't happened here anyway.
    Ideas are not gods.

    Really, try to bear down: words have meanings.They are parts of speech. When you try to claim that the context of reductionism is physics, you are babbling. When you babble and it consistently works as part of a debating tactic to dishonestly frame an argument, it looks intentional.
     
  20. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    In as much as you have a (poor) argument, you have a technique
    when you start insisting that it is alien to introduce an omni quality to a discussion on god, its pretty obvious whose hat you're feathering ...

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    bu things (including god) are discussed by the ideas that define them

    similarly constantly labeling something as babble without explaining why is also a tool of dishonesty.

    It s not even clear why you suggest that the context of reductionism (as it is proposed by Dennet et al) is not physics or why the use of the word "context" is unsuitable.

    All you can do is drive home your values with animosity in a style stereotypical of the fanatical Christians you abhor.
    :shrug:
     
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    No.

    And irrelevant. Atheism doesn't "have an argument".
    Please quote, rather than misrepresent. Especially in babble mode - I don't post like that.
    You don't discuss things "by ideas", the ideas of things do not define them, and the original comment rebuked was about conveying, not discussing, a god, not an idea.
    So break out the dictionary, discover what "reductionism" means and what "physics" is, realize that reductionism operates far outside the bounds of physics or any science or science in general, that Dennett is not proposing "the context of reductionism", and so forth.
     
  22. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    If God has always been alive somewhere, then life and existence are not of His doing. Why has He been given credit for these creations when He couldn't possibly have done either?
     
  23. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    sure it does
    google "atheistic philosophy"
    well you've just been whining for the past two dozen posts about how I am bringing a personal version of god do the table.
    All I've discussed is omnipotency.
    :shrug:
    well once again, I guess if you were really clever you could provide an example of conveying something without using ideas ....

    (atheism doesn't have an argument, terms do not convey ideas, discussion doesn't involve ideas ...... meh .... and to think I stand accused of babble

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    )

    So tell us what far reaching aspects of reductionism Dennet makes reference to (btw, which happen to be his ideas on the subject, just to belabour a point from above) outside of physics.
    /grabs popcorn
     

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