The Devil’s short-cut to ENLIGHTENMENT

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by genep, Dec 3, 2005.

  1. genep Guest

    There are some people with addictions on top of addictions until they live in a putrid garbage-dump.

    The second addiction is that they have to work.
    They have this addiction to work because they are in credit-card debt up to their neck.
    They have this debt because they have a first addiction to buy garbage which they then have another addiction to keep. The third addiction is that they cannot throw all the garbage out that they addictively buy. And so they live in a garbage dump that gets bigger and thicker and then putrid because their food has to rot because there is no room in the refrigerator where the newspapers that cannot be thrown out are crammed.
    This putrid garbage dump is exactly like the mind.
    The mind can’t think but it doesn’t know it. So sit back and enjoy the show the mind is when it thinks it can think.

    The putrid garbage dump is the mind and nothing can change it from accumulating all the thoughts it needs to be a putrid garbage dump for thoughts.

    But as long as the mind thinks it can think then let it think that it can accumulate all the thoughts it wants on one condition: It has to throw just one important thought out the window.

    If it can do that then it will be the Devils short-cut to ENLIGHTENMENT.

    The instant that one important thought flies out the window it turns into garbage. And the laughter of this revelation is Enlightenment itself.
    This laughter is lethal to all garbage because the more important the thoughts are that are thrown out the window the bigger and better the garbage they make.
    And when this laughter of Enlightenment explodes it does not stop with a spacious-refrigerator and a clean house because like with Buddha, Jesus and Ramana, there is no need for a house nor anything else but a loin-cloth and a begging bowl.

    I call this the Devil’s short-cut because the best laughter comes from throwing religions out the window, because they always make the best garbage.
    But throwing religions out does not make you the Devil, only doomed.
    What turns you into the Devil is the laugher that religions are because their word doomed makes them the best garbage.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. ellion Magician & Exorcist (93) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,474
    you really do talk in riddles genep! what is all that really about?

    there is an old saying:

    there are no pockets in a shroud!

    does this make sense to you?
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    Hmm, if everyone does that, from whom will anyone beg? No one will have anything to give to all of the beggars ...BECAUSE EVERYONE IS A BEGGAR... ...so what happens then? Where does the food and shelter come from? From whom does one beg?

    Baron Max
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. genep Guest

    I know exactly how you feel and think
    but only because
    I am far more stupid than you will ever imagine.


    When it comes to spirituality you are like a native in the deep-jungles of New Guinea.
    How do I start explaining to this native what a quantum-gap is?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 4, 2005
  8. genep Guest

    I don't think
    I don't write
    I am the Laughter
    that hands think
    and egos write.

    If those words make you laugh it is because you are ME.

    If it does not make you laugh it is because you think an ego, like you, wrote it and thus it went way above your ego's head.

    does that make sense to you?
    If you don't know anything about spirituality then say so. You don't have to act stupid - be stupid like me and laugh.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 4, 2005
  9. ellion Magician & Exorcist (93) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,474
    this word is an empty vessel there is nothing to know.
     
  10. river-wind Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,671
       "Therefore, Malunkyaputta, bear in mind what I have explained as explained, and what I have not explained as unexplained.
       What are the things that I have not explained?. Whether the universe is eternal or not, etc, ( those IO opinions) I have not explained. Why, Malungyaputta, have I not explained them?. Because it is not useful, it is not fundamentally connected with the spiritual holy life, is not conducive to aversion, detachment, cessation, tranquillity, deep penetration, full realization, Nirvana. That is why I have not told you about them.

       "Then, what, Malunkyaputta, have I explained? I have explained dukkha, the arising of dukkha, the cessation of dukkha, and the way leading to the cessation of dukkha. Why, Malunkyaputta, have I explained them? Because it is useful, is fundamentally connected with the spiritual holy life, is conducive to aversion, detachment, cessation, tranquillity, deep penetration, full realization, Nirvana."

    dukkha~"suffering associated with extraneous attachment"
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2005
  11. duendy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,585
    but yo luaghing doesn't wish it away. extreme poverty. the march to destroying all by thepower elites....it's more tha lughter---though laughter is good--that we need. we also need serous investigation how beliefs divide people from each other, andpromotion of a sacramental means to dissolve boudaries between people and Nature
     
  12. genep Guest

    far beyond your wildest dreams: EXACTLY

    This "nothing to know" is exactly what Advaita says: EVEN THOUGH IT IS EVERYTHING, Reality, "there is nothing to know" because it is beyond words, thoughts, the mind, your ego.
    It is thus exactly like physics' quantum-gap; it has to OBVIOUSLY be there, but there is nothing to know about it. Otherwise there would be quantum-gap department in physics.
    And yet there are libraries full with books with this Advaita, Vedas, " there is nothing to know" called Reality, spirituality.
    .
     
  13. genep Guest


    If you wrote this in a sleep dream you would be just as certain you are awake, and feel and think exactly the same.
    If you are in a sleep-dream --as you read this-- then there is nothing that can convince you that you are in a sleep-dream.

    This cocksure certainty that it is always awake we call the mind.
     
  14. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

    Messages:
    10,848

    yes this is a nice post it is all perfectly clear to me.

    it is true,

    and dont need the begging bowl either

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!




    i like your whole way of thinking, and your mind state.




    i know nothing,
    i see much,
    i feel much,
    i sense much,


    but i see myself,
    i feel myself
    i sense myself,

    i am the self, you are the self, it is the self,


    the self is the only thing ever to exist, because it is existance.

    death is not real because life is not real, many mouths sing the same tune, because there is only one song.

    peace.
     
  15. Huwy Secular Humanist Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    I totally respect this spirituality but it can be a bit offensive to some people especially when they feel they are being looked down upon, or preached to, as if they are "naive". I'm sure Jesus or Buddha wouldn't have been so egocentric to assume people are "naive" about spirituality.
     
  16. Huwy Secular Humanist Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    890
    Hey you know I respect quite a few things about buddhism, but I have a different sense of spirituality myself. I like to accumulate knowledge, skills, and training so that I can use those abilities to help others - instead of sitting with a begging bowl expecting other people to feed me - and letting all the other beggars starve - or even worse: claim i'm all enlightened, whilst not being able to same someone's life from a simple, common disease.
    See I agree pointless materialism, and bad thoughts are a waste of life, but positive materialism, and helpful knowledge, is a great acomplishment, and in my opinion, beats being a beggar any day.

    Its like,
    "The monks sat on the mountain, at peace with all around them, seeking enlightenment." Now I can totally respect that. But what if:
    "One of the monks, who had 4 brothers, contracted pneumonia in the winter cold.
    He developed a serious respiratory infection and other systemic complications as a result. He got sicker and sicker, and his brothers fed him, and cared for him, but they did not know why." Well thats a shame.

    "They had no medicine - no antibiotics to fight the pathogens that had invaded and infected his body, no paracetamol for his fever and pain, no oxygen to help his body in its deprived state.
    They were unable to save him - and he died."

    See I reflect on an example like that, and feel sad for them. They may be spiritually enlightened, but were not medically enlightened, and so lost somebody they loved.
    Would they try and discard their grief by saying "his life was only a dream"? or "his life in this world was meaningless?" I'd feel that was a pathetic response.

    So I think there are advantages and disadvantages to different ways of life, and I think both cultures need to look at those and try and improve their way of life, so that the materialistic west can become genuinely enlightened, and happier, and more at peace - and the poor spirituality enlightened beggars can become more educated, and really contribute to their society.

    I think we have things to offer each other, but to truelly be humble we have to be wiling to learn - not judge others as having nothing to offer.
     
  17. duendy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,585
    and coksure certainty includes belief 'it is alll a dream'....!
     
  18. ellion Magician & Exorcist (93) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,474
    how do you KNOW when you get killed in this conscious reality that you will not WAKE UP to another conscious reality. jsut as in the illustration given, you are in a conscious state you die to that state and on dying you awake.

    the dream you live now has been programmed to be a rigid physical construct since the death you call birth.
     
  19. duendy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,585
    what happens when we physically die, NO one knows. do you?......so all of what happens can only be conjecture.
    what we DO know is here, this blood and guts and all the experiential potential of life, which includes joy, suffering, boredem, lustinss...you name it. we KNOW this. and with this we also dream to. but we surely know difference between sleep ddreaming and daydreaming and actual reality. as i explained, we may feel in danger etc in dream, yet wake up with a smile of relief when we know 'ohhh, i was only dreaming'....but if someone slits our throat in reality, thats another matter. it is as real as can be. what happens if i die from loss of blood, who knows

    so to from there equivalize life with dream state is to me reductionist. an explaining away of the complexity of life. a form of escapism.
    Advaita Vedanta will 'ignore' poverty and suffering cause it 'isn't real'.....well go and tell that to the ones in thethick of it!

    also ellion, theterminology you choose to describe our birth into life...ie., 'we are programmed to be rigid enities' etc soundstoo mechanical-sounding to me. i rather like the Alan Watts metaphor: 'like the tree apples, the universe peoples'
     
  20. river-wind Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,671
    But you can't prevent people from dying, just delay it. All those medications and such may prevent him from dying *now*, but he will still die one day. Which is better? The answer lies in how you view life: as joy mixed with pain, or as pain puncuated with joy.

    I am not argueing that modern medicine is not worthwhile and helpful, but it has its own pitfalls. Those antibiotics are, in the midst of helping the monk feel better, creating resistant, and often more virulent strains of the illness. This could, two years down the road, kills all five of the brothers. It is unknown at the time of treatment.

    Is this medical enlightenment truely *good*? Well, for now, yes. it has help alleviate the pain of millions; however, if we later discover that our medicine created something that causes even more pain, that small pox vaccine manufactured using Chimp brains helped create and proliferate the AIDS retrovirus, for instance, then it will look bad in hindsight. Trans-orbital Frontal Lobotomies (ice-pick style) were all the rage for a number of years; now they are known to have been very destructive, dangerous, and pretty much a dumb thing to do.

    When talking about enlightenment and transendentalism, you may need to consider what is beyond the first step in this train of thought - if life after death exists, then the monks have not lost anything by thier brother dying. If life after death doesn't exist, then thier brother's suffering as a part of this difficult life is at an end. Either way, in thier view, there is nothing negative in death, and there is no need to be sad for them.
     
  21. ellion Magician & Exorcist (93) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,474
    amen!!
     
  22. ellion Magician & Exorcist (93) Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,474
    that is what you think. you do not KNOW that no one knows. if you knew no one knows or if you knew that someone knows you would not ask me if i knew.

    what i know cannot help in this situation, if i say yes, i would be asked to prove it or explain myself. this would be even less helpful.

    it is only conjecture if you cannot see clearly.

    you knowing this does not have any impact on what i know. this is a limitaiton of your knowledge and many people have the same or similar limitations to their knowledge.

    we know the diference when we are awake we know that sleep dreaming is a sleepdream. when we are sleep dreaming we do not always know that we are sleep dreaming. we still fear the man with the knife, we still feel if he cuts our throat it is going to fucking hurt. in the dream state death is still feared. why is this death feared so much? it is only a dream. when awake a lot of people fear death too? this fear is born of not KNOWING. that is; not being awake.

    in this reality, it is a matter of life or death. if you die to this life and wake up to another then what has died? your limtited perspective, thats all.

    who are you asking? if you do not know something that does not mean it is unknowable. it is known and you can Know Your Self.

    i am glad you realize that this is only your view. it is not reductionist to me i would probably say it was the opposite. what is the opposite philosophy of reductionism? Expansionism! for me it is expansionism.

    thats hilarious!

    i dont study the veda but i imagine the response would be "the ones in the thick off it" are no more real than their poverty.


    the terminology i choose to express my experience i choose because it fits my experience best. i do not choose my terminology to please you or anybody else. i am not being nasty when i say this but i dont give a fuck about alan watts and his rotten apples. sorry!
     
  23. duendy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,585
    3 things rang out tome reading your reply......your persistant worldview, which you own

    your reponse to me sayin how the Vednatic mindset sees poverty and its victims as illusion, where you damningly say, 'maybe the people are not real' or words to that effect

    and a suprise at the end where you seem to really show hostility towards a paraphrased quote from Alan Watts

    focussin on te latter, it WAS a shock actually. it seemed incongrous with te rest, but not in its accumulating culmination of yor insistence of being right!

    for what Alan says has absolutely no harm in it. ...you know. it surely is poetic, liberating --for me anyhow. so to vent such invective towars sch an insightful few words seems odd to me.

    anyway....i spose you feel what you feel and me me. i cannot trust anyone who claims to know after physical death. why? cause they'd be alive tellin me.......does tismean i am materialist andbelieve in no afterlife?....No, it doesn't. i am open to NDE accounts. dont kno what they MEAN in essence. but i am not dismissin all tat wit wave of hand lie some here i know!

    BUT, to have some belief system tell me shit i cant feel myself is not te way to go for me. especially when they starrt suggesting poverty isn't real, and the people suffering aren't real, or the suffer cause they beliee they are real. that i cannot trust.....ever!
     

Share This Page