Moderator-This might get ugly. If you'd rather I not do this, please let me know. Lori-Let's go. So far there is nothing in existence that cannot be explained through chemical reactions. I believe the big bang was just one of many. As to where the chemicals came from, well, it's the same answer as to where god came from. Where are we going? Wherever we point ourselves until the reactions die out. So much for my religious beliefs. I can probably guess yours, but if you want to sum them up, go for it. I have two questions to start off with. 1) Am I dealing with an adult or a kid (under 18)? I don't care how old you actually are. I am an adult, and there is certain language I don't use around kids no matter how ticked off I might get. It's just a personal value and it has nothing to do with how serious I'll take you. (You know, the "s/he's just a kid so what do they know" syndrome.) 2) Could you please explain your signature? It doesn't seem to bear up unless you're into abusive relationships. [This message has been edited by Oxygen (edited September 11, 1999).]
Come on now, it's not gonna get that ugly. I agree with you. Everything can be explained by a chemical reaction of some kind. I think that science is the method, and God is the reason. The Bible doesn't get into specifics on genetics and the science behind everything, just the why, not the how. I'm 32, and I should really watch my mouth. You're right. You know, there are kids out here reading this stuff, and I shouldn't be so mouthy. I'm not an "accomplished" Christian, but one none the less. And what I mean by my sig is that I DO love you. I do, because God does, in an I love humanity kind of way, you know? Just because I get lippy, doesn't mean I don't wub u. I just disagree with you, that's all. I'm not into abusive relationships, I just get pissed because everyone out here on the board thinks I'm loony. I'm used to being the "smarty-pants". Straight A honors student, first woman in the family to graduate college, the one everybody comes to for advice, the "good little girl". Though, I did do my best to destroy that persona in my 20's. LOL! Anyway, I'm not used to being called a nut. I'm used to being called an excellent thinker. (if you can believe that!) ------------------ God loves you and so do I!
Wow! And I was ready for a fight! Well, I meant what I said about your writing. It's very top notch. I, too, am 32. Anyone who considers you a nut should remember that Copernicus was also thought of as a loon. I think that somewhere in the heat of the moment people all too readily forget that their view isn't the only view. I am, as I have said, an atheist. My father, however, is Roman-Catholic. We live in a Catholic neighborhood and I am treated like I have some kind of weird disease (except by my father, who is convinced that sooner or later I'll see the light). If someone has an opposing viewpoint to my own, I become very interested in hearing their side. If all they want to do is shake their fingers and tell me I'm wrong without any explanation, I try to ignore them. Have you ever read the bible? I mean, REALLY read it? Some people flip through a couple of passages now and then and claim to have read it, but the whole book, from Old Testament to New, is chock full of contradictions. I don't mean just in the history or the storyline, but in the very nature of god. It's like he's a devoted, caring father in the first part, but in the second half of the Old Testament he's into cruelty (poor Job, and all over a bet with satan...) and vindictiveness. There's even a passage in Leviticus (I'll have to look for it again) where, if I've read it right, God meets Moses outside a bar and tries to kill him. Looking at it from a psychological standpoint, either God has a split personality, a drinking problem (jk), or there was a change in adminstration. What's your take on it? For the record, it's a 1971 King James that I have. (And I'm not sorry to have disappointed any viewers who wanted a cat-fight. I'd always rather be friends.)
Hey there, Sorry it took so long to respond. I've had my PC down at home, and not much time. I didn't know there was such a thing as a catholic neighborhood! Don't worry, you're not a disease for crying out loud. God loves you just as much as He does them, you just don't know it is all. My little brother is an atheist. I should say younger, not little, as he's 28. I've read most of the Bible, but not all of it. Probably around 80% of it if I had to guess. I kind of jump around, and read different parts, not in chronological order. To be honest, some parts, like Numbers, are just too boring to get through....begat, begat, begat, who cares? Also, there have been many times when I've not understood what I've read. I started reading it without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which is the ONLY way to interpret it correctly, or to get the right message. Still, the language in the KJV is really hard to get used to. I've relied alot on other people's interpretations, though they vary, I ask the Holy Spirit to guide me to the truth. I know there are people who have devoted their whole lives to studying the Bible and interpreting it, so I guess I leave that up to the experts sometimes. Nothing wrong with that, as I would expect that if a theologian wanted his taxes done, he would come and get some of my expertise. You know what's really wierd though, is that even if I really don't understand the entire message of what I'm reading, that just the ACT of reading the Bible makes me feel good. It's just like a sense of peace comes over me that's just trippy. I think the Bible is magical almost. A spiritual phenomenon if you will. I think that there are endless messages and prophecies, and that they are revealed in many different ways depending upon the person who's reading it or interpreting it, or the circumstances of the day. It is definately divine. Because sometimes it seems to contradict, I just assume that I'm not understanding the message correctly is all. And also, you know that God controls Satan, right? So, in a way, God is responsible for the evil that takes place in this world. This life is a test. The most important one that you will ever take. The results are eternal. If it seems that God is cruel, I think that the message is that THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING EVER. I think that the message is trying to give you a little glimpse of hell, you know? The point is that the consequences of disbelief, or disobeying God are terrible. And that's not because God is mean, it's just that we all have a choice, and He's trying to tell us that the choice is an important and eternal one, with glorious or very grave consequences. Hell is no picnic, you know? I have a friend that said that she would rather go to hell, than to change this one particular thing about herself. This particular thing is denounced in the Bible, and is in direct disobedience to God. I really don't think she understands what hell is. Certainly this particular thing does not warrant the consequences. I'm rambling aren't I? Well, I've got to get back to work now. Later, tater. ------------------ God loves you and so do I!
Lori, Free will or no free will -- <u>that</u> is the question, isn't it? Sorry, just couldn't hold back on that one... ------------------ I am; therefore I think.
The neighborhood I live in is made up of almost all Mexican families. There are two churches with three blocks of my apartment, both are Catholic, and although I'm an atheist, there's something so pastoral about church bells on a Sunday morning that I get the feeling that if there is a god, he doesn't care one whit about what I believe or don't, as long as I am at peace. I am a fan of the Middle Ages, so the language in the KJV is like a second language to me. It's not the dialect that throws me. What I did, however, was to read the Old Testament as though I was reading a poorly translated history book. The sources that the bible was copied from were most likely incomplete, so some monks may have taken creative liberties here and there to put their point across to the pagans. Also, many books from the complete Old Testament, I have heard, were left out because they were of controversial nature. But I wonder about the books that were left in. Taken at face value, I summarized the "plots" of the Old Testament, using modern English, and sent them to friends of mine and asked what sort of rating they would give them as movies (not telling them what they were). Most came back with an "R" rating, one or two with an "X" rating (for excessive sex and violence) and only two books were fit for family viewing ( one was the Book of Ruth). What are these things doing in a book that is supposed to encourage peace and love? The New testament is harder for me to read than the Old Testament, mostly because it's so repetitious. Most of the books simply retell the story of Jesu ben Josef (Jesus). They corroborate each other, but I don't know if that's because they are accurate or if the authors were copying each other over the years. One note on the Book of Ezekiel: many people, UFO enthusiasts in particular, take this book at face value and point to it as evidence for all sorts of things (angels, aliens, etc.) Has anybody ever considered that Zeke ate some bad bread? There's a substance in bread mold that causes the same effect as LSD. Maybe he was hallucinating that wheel with a wheel and all that burnished brass? (Glad your PCs working!) [This message has been edited by Oxygen (edited September 17, 1999).]
Boris- re: all the evil in the world and who causes it I read a story once about a man who confided to a friend that he was so pissed off at all the killing and violence and bad things that happen to innocent people that he wanted to climb the highest mountian in the world and shout to God "Why do you let this happen?" When his friend asked him why he didn't he replied, "Because I'm afraid He might ask me the same thing."
Boris-My e-mail rang in that you replied to my Religious Debate topic, but I don't see your reply. Could you repost, please? Thanks!
Oxygen - if it seems that God has a split personality, maybe it's because there is more than one "god" whose actions are discussed in the Bible, although there was apparently a God above all other gods (e.g., Genesis 1:26, Genesis 9:26, Genesis 11:6,7, Genesis 14:18-22, Exodus 34:14-16).
We mistaken angels and Satan and his demons for gods. Little g's, I like to call them. Would be easy for us earthly dummies to do, since they are so much more powerful than us. We are easily deceived if we don't have a relationship with Jesus. That is why this message in the Bible is so important, and that is why it is important in relation to aliens and their motives. ------------------ God loves you and so do I!
>We mistaken angels and Satan and his demons for gods. Little g's, I like to call them. Would be easy for us earthly dummies to do, since they are so much more powerful than us. We are easily deceived if we don't have a relationship with Jesus. That is why this message in the Bible is so important, and that is why it is important in relation to aliens and their motives. --------------------- Lori, They were trying to explain the apparently "split" personality of the bible's god. (from malicious to good. From orderly to chaotic.) You are saying that satan and his demons are responsible for roughly HALF of actions in the bible attributed to god? People obeyed, and praised satan and much as god. Satan, (under the guise of god of course) made a bet with himself. Satan gave authority to men AND TO HIMSELF. He can do that? Now that's just scary. Or rather, would be if it made any sense... Now this is pretty a strange theory. Even in the context of debate among bible "scholars", I strongly doubt it would hold much water. (no offense intended of course.) Blacktubby ------------------ Blacktubby, "Reality has a way of catching up with you, the way the ground catches up with an airplane that runs out of fuel."
Let's not let Lori's most important statement slip through the cracks... "We are easily deceived if we don't have a relationship with Jesus." ------------------ Have a great day!
The Bible is a book which was written by and translated by men. Each saw the stories from a different angle and it was translated the way the church elders wanted and not exactly as it was written in the original langauge. Some of the Hebrew words had two meanings and they chose the one which fit the human ego best. The trinity was not added until about the 14 to 16 century. Mysteries of the Bible on A&E and it is very interesting, Saturdays at 7 PM EDT.
Oxygen, Oh yeah, you mean the "God" who descended in a "cloud" and met Moses face to face as a man on Mount Sinai, and told Moses his name was "Jealous"? It is my personal belief that the real God is spirit, or energy, if you will. God permeates all things, from as far as you can go inside an atom out to the farthest reaches of the universe. God does not have a body, and therefore has no sex organs and no image. We refer to God as He or Him for the purpose of convenience only. I'm sure He is secure enough in His position that He doesn't feel the need to bully anyone into worshipping Him. I believe that the ones who are demanding worship had a lot to do with our being here. I think we are either clones or hybrids of them (most likely hybrids). However, I don't think of them as demons any more than I would consider us demons if we went to another planet and did the same things.
Excuse me dude, but the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible, not men. You didn't know that???????????? Where have you been, in a cave or something????? ------------------ God loves you and so do I!
Right. And I bet the Holy Spirit wrote Mein Kampf too. Or isn't it just downright obvious? ------------------ I am; therefore I think.
Boris, You are so full of shit. I'm glad I can't smell you through the PC. ------------------ God loves you and so do I!
That was insolent and un-nessecary u a cheeky monkee lori p.s this post was edited cos i missed spelt nessecary, u see, i am a shambles Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ------------------ Im a shambles, but Im Gods shambles!! [This message has been edited by PercyPea (edited October 12, 1999).]
