The Eternal Universe.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Sep 11, 2018.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    The oA theist posts on a science forum.

    The interesting question is: why?
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  3. gmilam Valued Senior Member

    Aesthetically, I like the idea of a cyclical universe. Even though I know the universe doesn't care about what I like. But those who know the math tell me that it's not possible.

    Then again, they also tell me that the current model breaks down at the big bang. Infinite mass stuffed into an infinitely small spec does seem to be problematic.
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  5. river

    The Eternal Universe has life imbeded within it , Hence a " god " , is possible .

    But the question is , what if I disagree with this god ?

    Humanity should be able to think for itself
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
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  7. kx000 Valued Senior Member

    God could exist as LOVE without creation and it would be what he wants.
  8. Jan Ardena Valued Senior Member

    Ask yourself, what if I disagree with nature?
    For example, what if I decide to teach my body a lesson by depriving it of food and water?

    Humans can think for themselves, but there are rules and regulations that ought to be adhered to.
    Failure to comply causes repercussions.

  9. river

    Then they havn't lived in a desert , of any kind

    Humanity must always have a standard of conduct towards others that supercede's religion
  10. river

    Love , emotion , not all that a Human Being has as a part its Brain function , or expression of its self .

    Emotion is one
  11. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Where is your proof that there was something before the big bang?
  12. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    The Big Bang Theory describes the evolution of the universe according to that model and as far as it can go back it can only describe the universe as a very hot and very dense something.

    The model can not tell us any more than even as far back as we can go that we cant get to a point of creation as there was in the model always something.

    We can only look at all this and conclude that all we know is that there has always be something and of course if there has always been something we can only describe the universe as eternal.

    We can only speculate upon how the hot dense something became so hot and dense perhaps that condition is part of a cycle... but we just dont know exactly other than we cant identify that the Universe had a start and therefore we can not identify a creation point meaning the universe is most probably eternal.

  13. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    The eternal universe theory is popular, but what about the creation of galaxies? Is all the data/evidence for the age of the universe wrong? If that is the case, then how old is our solar system?

    Never really talked about this before, so thanks for your post

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    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    You need to be specific but I really cant think of something that is mainstream that I have a problem with....other than the theory of inflation and I have no opposing theory...

    I am not sure but say 5 billion years maybe 6 billion or 6000 years on some accounts based on a religious approach.
    You are welcome.
    The science of astronomy is most interesting to me.

  15. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    That is fair enough. I don't think there is sufficient evidence for any of our theories so I don't accept any of them. I don't want to tear each of the theories down. I do know that no one actually knows so you could be right but you could be wrong.

    Where did you get this from?

    It's a noble pursuit. Why do you believe in an eternal universe? You seem to mention it a lot so I guess you're quite confident in your ideas.
  16. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Yes but you cant say that...whom ever you talk to are convinced they do know and we dont want to hurt anyones feelings.
    From the top of my head.
    It does away with a creation and therefore a creator.
    Besides I cant see how something can come from nothing.
    Consider the options.
    An eternal universe with a series of finite universes or an eternal creator who pops out of eternity to create a finite universe from nothing.

    Well the message is ...if theists can pull a creator out of thin air with no evidence then I can pull an eternal universe out of the minimal evidence that existing science provides.

    Really how could the universe be anything other than eternal without introducing magic and mythical entities that can create something by will and presumably magic.

  17. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Everything that we can sense and know of is not eternal.
    Galaxies, stars, planets, and all that live upon them are born, age, and die.
    Why then would the universe itself be eternal?

    which brings up
    is the concept "universe" better than "multiverse"?
  18. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

    Generally with learning any subject if you find you are mistaken with something and you find out what you were taught is incorrect you check numerous sources to confirm that the new information is correct

    For religious persons this option, apparently, is a non starter

    As an example take the flood and ark

    Despite explaining the impossibility of so many aspects of the story the breakthrough for the religious

    "god can do anything"

    Belief and faith trumps logic and evidence every time

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  19. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    It's fun to debate here sometimes, but the vast majority of people in this sub forum just don't want to learn anything. Take this thread, eternal universe. The reason I'm interested is to learn more about it without necessarily accepting it.

    I presume you have done a bit research since you thought of it?

    I've always lived by everything has a beginning and end, regardless of a creator. You shouldn't mix a creator with anything to do with science, but people do all the time. Everything in the universe had a beginning and everything in it will have an end, what makes the actual universe any different. I admit I don't have a clue. The big bang has more evidence then anything else, but it is far from conclusive.

    I agree.

    I'll look into what you're saying later, as I have a few ideas on how we can introduce mythology into this thread.
  20. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

    Are you having a laugh? Virtually no one on these forums adjust their viewpoints based even on hard evidence.

    What was the last thing you accepted here?

    Look at yourself before judging others.
  21. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Michael you are being very silly - and a possibly a tad trollish - here.

    Only biblical fundamentalists take the story of Noah's Flood as literal. All the doctors of the church are well aware the myth is as old as the hills and is found in the Epic of Gilgamesh. More generally, religious believers are certainly capable of changing their views and in fact do so a great deal, probably more than scientists do, given the numerous interpretations of religious belief that are available.

    Don't demean yourself by taking cheap shots at Aunt Sally caricatures of religion.
  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Because it is the exception.
    And everything we observe tells us that although things are born and die they all come from something as opposed to nothing when they are born and all become something rather than nothing when they die.
    The something always will be because something can not come from nothing unless you employ magic and myth.
    It does not matter they are all part of the eternal universe.

  23. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

    Yes I agree.
    The combination of faith, belief, logic and evidence is a happy one for the eternal universe.
    The logic is sound as it identifies that only something can be eternal rather than someone, the evidence tells us no matter how far back that we seek our history the is always something but not someone.
    With high confidence we can believe the eternal universe is the most probable and have faith that we have found a better solution that the tales of magic offerred in the past.


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