The fall of Trumpcare

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ElectricFetus, Mar 24, 2017.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Not with majority Republican support.
     
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    If it had been cleverly rebranded with a shiny TRUMP(tm) logo on it and a big "BY REPUBLICANS" subtitle? I don't think it would have had any issue passing. Trump supporters would claim that it had NOTHING to do with that lousy, failed Obamacare - although it might look something like the ACA.
     
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  5. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Sure... and I should care what moronic reasoning republicans have because?

    You asked for an obamacare-like plan, we provided, now your attempting to weasel out and move the goal post.

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    Let me put it do you like, do you disagree with the heritage foundation plan?
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    There are too many true believers among the Republican media operations. Plus the Dems would have jumped on board.
     
  8. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    You're ignoring substantial facts again.

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    If you believed Trump's campaign lies, that's on you. The Republicans who rejected Trumpcare didn't. "If those had been true"? That's the point, the Republicans who refused Trumpcare knew they weren't.
     
  9. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know...intellectual honesty?
    LOL! If you really want to call a plan with a catastrophic coverage mandate without any teeth Obamacare-like, you go right ahead.

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    Facts and details matter.
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, I knew he was lying, and indeed was amused by the True Believers who lapped them up.
    The republicans who rejected Trumpcare didn't give a shit about his lies. They desperately wanted to get re-elected.
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The relevant facts and details you can read up on in the Kaiser Health Institute link in post 70 - the link in which one of, if not the, leading analytical houses in this exact issue summarized its findings thus:
     
  12. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Intellectual is the wrong word. Actually work the logic here: "I'm voting no because this is obamacare-lite, thus forcing us all to remain with obamacare full" do you see the stupidity yet?

    Your just weaseling, what do you think the word mandate means? Do you honestly think the heritage foundation wanted no punishment?
     
  13. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    Apparently you either don't understand the limitations of political capital or you bought Trump and Ryan's lie that the only choice was between Obamacare or Trumpcare (false dilemma).
    Not much without any penalty (demonstrated by the religious exemption in the Chafee plan, supposedly based on the Heritage plan). You can read into it stuff that isn't there, but I'm not going to indulge your unfounded assumptions.
     
  14. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Well guess what it is for now: Obamacare.

    It says "mandate" there is no assumption, of course you don't want to indulge you know you lost.
     
  15. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    And? Can the Republican majority Congress not introduce new legislation on the issue?

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    Yeah, get your little victories whatever you can imagine them, huh?

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    Even making zero assumptions, the Heritage plan only mandated catastrophic coverage...you know, like mandated car insurance.
    And the Chafee plan, supposedly based on the Heritage plan, had a religious exemption to the mandate.
    An alternative strategy - mandating insurance coverage without regard to risk - is attractive to some analysts, but it has the defect of pushing up rates for all insured individuals. Thus the cost of protecting the high-risk group is shouldered equally by all insured families. This is far more regressive than using the general tax code to cover these individuals.
    - 1989 Heritage Plan​
    Obamacare mandates "coverage without regard to risk...pushing up rates for all insured individuals."
    But keep telling yourself whatever helps you sleep.

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  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    In theory, sure. In reality - look at what happens when they try.
    Who's going to write it, this time?
    That brings down rates for insured individuals, if everybody is receiving medical care.

    The only way it would raise rates would be if lots of people were not insured individuals, and could not pay for medical care, and therefore did not receive any, before.
     
  17. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Apparently they can't! They control the whole of the federal government and still can't get shit done. I gave a lot of shit to democrats for when they had total control that the best they could do was obamacare, but clearly republicans bet the record for incompetence.

    Oh boy!

    And again more weaseling. You asked for "obamacare-like", we provided, and now your moving the goal post in a panic to "exactly Obamacare".
     
  18. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    It's already been written and voted for...many times.
    And if those same Republicans hope to keep their seats come the midterm, they're going to have to do something to prove this wasn't just a political ploy under Obama.
    No, basic economic tells us that not accounting for risk drives up prices for everyone, as the insurers are forced to defray the risk among all policies.
    And how long did it take Democrats? Remember, the ACA wasn't even introduced to the House until July 2009 (6 months into Obama's first term), wasn't passed until October 2009, and wasn't signed into law until March 2010 (14 months into Obama's first term).
    And you want to compare that to 3 months into Trump's first term? LOL!

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    What a joke.
    Yeah, it really can't be helped that you don't have the intellectual honesty to refrain from faulty comparisons.

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  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    There may be some room temperature IQ types out there who still think that those were NOT political ploys - but at this point you would be hard pressed to find them.
     
  20. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    More like 7 years since they wanted to replace it.
     
  21. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Couples who made above 62 thousand on line 37 of ther 1040 didnt get an Obamacare subsidy to reduce ther insurance premium... an some of 'em druther have a cheep policy like they had before Obamacare an they dont care that the cheep policy wasnt nearly as good... an even tho ther makin perty good money i can still understand that they ant hapy wit the premium increase.!!!

    So as a fix... policies coud be added to Obamacare which cover less an cost less... or... the cutoff maximum a couple coud make coud be increased (100 thousand?) so even they coud have as good a policy as everbody else on Obamacare.!!!

    Personaly... i like everbody bein well insured (for ther own benefit... an to keep everbodys premiums lower by not usin the emergency room as ther family Dr.)... an i thank the 62 thousand cutoff is plenty generous.!!!

    Hmmm... other than makin medicare avalable to all... i dont see that Obamacare needs fixin

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  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    When it couldn't pass. The question was who's going to write it now.
    Defraying the risk among all policies lowers the prices. That's the whole point of insurance.
    You would not be hard pressed to find that view among the expressed views in US news media or in the beliefs of the core Republican electorate.
     
  23. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Dude, your ilk had 7 years to come up with an alternative, not 3 months.

    Yeah, it really can't be helped that you don't have the intellectual honesty to admit when your wrong.
     

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