The Hard Problems Of Consciousnes - One of the best cases for Intelligent Design

Discussion in 'Religion' started by LFiess1942, Oct 13, 2014.

  1. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    As has been pointed out in this thread, the claimed design is not intelligent. IF there is a designer, it has/had power & possibly some knowledge yet lacked wisdom, intelligence, compassion & probably much knowledge. I have much more intelligence than is evident in your claimed creation & design. Too bad I lack the power.
     
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  3. BIGFOOT Registered Senior Member

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    My position in regard to sense experience has been influence by Kant's arguments. I take Kant's position and then I modify it where he apparently refused to push his argument to the obvious conclusion.

    As Immanuel Kant has argued these sensory organs are tools of a subjective mind, which it uses to make sense of reality. Therefore the reality which appears to us, and which we apprehend, is a reality according to our subjective interpretation of whatever we apprehend. Therefore it appears objective, because we impose on it, an objectives view with our subjective mental tools. Our mental tools which we use, to understand reality, create an illusion of objectivity because of our subjective bias. It appears objective, because, the observer is subjective in his perception of reality! This subjectivity creates a biased perception, which leads to an illusion of objective reality, which in reality does not exists, as confirmed by QM, entangled properties of matter and reality. That means that the mental tools that we use, i.e sight, smell, hearing, touching, space, times, and sense of objective matter, are the ones that delude our perception of separateness. They create illusory boundaries. Given that these tools do not in fact exists but are a creation of the mind, we must abandon them, and reconstruct, our view of reality without them.

    Since reality appears to be, only when we are conscious of it, a consciousness based on subjective signals sent by our senses to our subjective mind, which the mind is forced to impose parameters, in order to make sense of it, that means that we are the creators of the objectivity, with our subjective interpretation. This “ physical reality”, being the “objective reality” we experience, is therefore to all intent, a generation of our mind, through our senses, using limited tools of consciousness. To that extent, there is no distinction between the observer and the observed, because the observer has created his subjective reality which he interprets as "objective" And in order to have the correct perception of reality, as observers, we must do away with both the subjective perception, of an objective reality, and recognize that the right perception of reality, is to recognize it as a Unity. Reality and the observer is Unity. Reality, is perception. Indeed, as Bishop Berkley observed, “to be, is to be perceived”. Existence, is Observation, because observers must exist in order to observe. Both, are contents of Consciousness. And Consciousness is Existence. And all that exists, is consciousness! It exists as that which is expressed and experienced. The world exists because Consciousness exists. And therefore objective reality only exists because we impose structures that create illusion of separateness according to our subjective interpretation. But in itself, this objective and therefore “Physical Reality” does not actually exists! Our reality, is a Spiritual One, a Unity of Wholeness, without any separation! Its here therefore, that we find ourselves at the same point where A. J Wheeler arrived, when he stated; "Someday we'll understand the whole thing as one single marvelous vision that will seem so overwhelmingly simple and beautiful that we may say to each other; 'Oh, how could we have been so stupid for so long? How could it have been otherwise!'" (J. A. Wheeler) This day has come, and its now! Lets stop being deluded by materialism, and recognize that we are all, One, and therefore one in all. Materialism is a result of ignorance, which creates fear of lack which is the cause of all conflicts.
     
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  5. BIGFOOT Registered Senior Member

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    You say "lacked wisdom, intelligence, compassion & probably much knowledge" No, its only that you do not know Him, that is of course why you have these conclusions. If He had wisdom, intelligent, compassion, knowledge, etc, why evil? why suffering?

    Well, he is creating a New World, while on the cross.

    Then the One sitting on the Throne spoke,’ Look, I am making the whole creation new. Write this, ‘What I am saying is trustworthy and will come true’ Then again he said, ‘It has already happened. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give water from the well of Life free to anybody who is thirsty; anyone who proves victorious will inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he will be my Son. Revelation 21:1- 10
     
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  7. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    That day has not come, no matter how much you need it to be. Reality is not perception. There is not yet any reason to suspect that consciousness creates reality tho, of course, the brain plays a major part in perception. Whatever the final answer may turn out to be, there definitely is a physical reality. All perception is from the brain which uses the senses as tools. IF all the senses are abandoned as useless, nothing can be perceived.

    You claim everything is illusion yet you claim to know answers you cannot know if everything is illusion.
     
  8. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    No, it is only that it is obviously accurate that it would have lacked wisdom, intelligence, compassion & probably much knowledge. I have these conclusions because they are logical. You have yours because they are not logical.
     
  9. BIGFOOT Registered Senior Member

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    "illusion of objective reality" That's my point. Everything is Unity because all is Consciousness.
     
  10. BIGFOOT Registered Senior Member

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    Its logic which persuade me that God exists. And if He exists, and evil and suffering also exists, then, he too must be suffering. For He confirms the same.

    ‘My grace is enough for you; my power is at its best in weakness’ 2 Corinthians 12:9-10 He is Mighty enough to bear all human pain, and punish the unrepentant sinner by suffering with Him.
     
  11. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Many scientifically trained people who are also religious believers see the workings of God in the order of the universe. That is what Einstein was talking about. This however is not, repeat not, an endorsement of Intelligent Design.

    Intelligent Design, as I am sure you well know, makes specific claims that life, specifically, among all the phenomena of nature, cannot have arisen by natural processes. Intelligent Design is a political project, aimed at shoehorning religion into science as part of a general drive to make society at large more religious, as the Wedge Document makes clear. It has no genuine basis in science, as evidenced by the absence of any observational evidence of its claims, after more than 20 years of talk.

    Einstein never came anywhere near endorsing such a notion, and nor do religiously inclined scientists (apart, that is, from a handful of nutcases in the USA.)
     
  12. BIGFOOT Registered Senior Member

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    I just quoted him, you can decide what he meant, based on what you would like it to have been.
     
  13. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you quote illusion?
     
  14. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    No, it is not logic which persuades you. No god can confirm anything until it gets up the courage to come out of hiding & show itself.

    Quotes from your childish yet cruel fairy tale are absolutely meaningless.
     
  15. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    You have no point.
     
  16. BIGFOOT Registered Senior Member

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    When light shines on dark places, what do creatures who operate in darkness do? Scatter! Falsehood is afraid of Truth.
     
  17. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    The only 1 scattering here is you. YOU are the 1 in the dark & afraid of the truth. Look into a mirror & stop projecting.
     
  18. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    No, you did not "just quote" him, you claimed Einstein acknowledged Intelligent Design.

    So I pointed out this was a falsehood.
     
  19. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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  20. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Notice he said ''The word God...'' and not simply ''God''.?

    jan.
     
  22. BIGFOOT Registered Senior Member

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    Continue Mark timing at Bells line-on-the-sand of "Physics" world.

    “There are two types of men, those who are afraid to lose God, and those who are afraid that they might find Him--Braise Pascal, philosopher and scientist
     
  23. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    You are fond of stupid quotes which do not support your delusion. I am not afraid of anything & specially could not be afraid of losing or finding something for which there is no evidence.
     

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