The Hindus-An Alternative History

They call it a lungi. A dhoti is worn differently from a lungi. In fact a muslim cannot be seen dead wearing a dhoti. But a Hindu has no hangup about a lungi.

 

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I think its kali as in where we get kali yuga from (as opposed to durga kali)

 

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Sure. It can be wrapped around the shoulders too. While sleeping it can cover you. If need be you can wrap and tie your things too.

 

Think or moonshine? Who says even Kali in Kali Yuga is a demon?

 

Archeological evidence is nearly out. What is such evidence with respect to Buddha? ZERO.

When you excavate for archeological evidence, you are generally, of not always, aware what you MIGHT find ie nature of find. In case of Mahabharata, what would you expect to find? Krishna's horroscope on a stone tablet?

But there is certain internal astronomical information in Mahabharata, which points that it happened around 5300 years ago.

General Interpretations are not much different. But Hindus, having freedom of thought, do have some opinions about various characters.

 

And Indians also extend this freedom to everyone else -except when fundamentalists are in power and filmmakers are forced to keep movies like Fire and Sita Sings the Blues only for foreign audiences. Which is a pity - that we have to go abroad to see movies about Indian characters.

Have you read The Argumentative Indian by Amartya Sen? It is a "feel good" book for all Indians.

 

SB10.74.53

Garga samhita canto 1 T30

also its there in the mahabharata adi parva when they give an intro to the main players :

Tons of other references - I was just saying that its pretty obvious that this is the relationship between kali and duryodhana ... although terming it a "demon" is probably a consequence of european translations

 

Dur-yodhna, a fighter hard to oppose. Also called Su-yodhana, a noble fighter.

Kali Yuga was yet to start. Kali is definitely not a demon. Kali Yuga, name of the era after Dwapar, lasting 4,32,000 years, after whick Lord Kalik is to appear.

The life and society in this era too is described in detail.

 

I'm pretty sure it was his parents who named him Suyodhana - yet he is more well referenced by his other names

Like many elements in vedic thought, there is a personified aspect to it (and hence portions and plenary portions of it)
Like Kali's encounter with maharaj Pariksit (when he is beating the cow)

Also there are many references to how kali could not appear in a his fullness while Krsna was on the planet (kali yuga began at the point of Krishna's external disappearance), there are also references to how duryodhana is paving the way for the junction of yugas

Mahabharata

http://vedabase.net/sb/12/2/30/en

 

Kali Yuga had to come. Krishna was busy minimising it ill effects by eliminating the bad ones to the extent possible. Even his own clan had become wayward.

Parikshit did want to banish Kali, but Kali convinced him. As per schema, Kali did come when Krishna left.

 

hence duryodhana was the bad egg that heralded kali yuga

Not sure what you are referencing to suggest that Krsna's clan was wayward

 

Doesn't Kali Yug or Kalyug have to do with the male demon Kali and not the female goddess? Isn't he the nemesis of Kalki, the tenth avatar of Vishnu?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_(demon)

Or am I just confused?

 

they are different personalities, the goddess kali is an expansion of siva's consort, durga or paravti (the jurisdiction of both is the material world or Devi-dhama )

Kali, as in kali yuga, is an era summed up By Markandeya (who goes on to say that every kali yuga it is more or less the same, having received the boon to live through many universal devastations)

Its not so much that kali is the arch enemy of visnu (like jaya and vijaya who play out the role of Hiranyakashipu and Hiranyaksha, Ravana and Kumbakana, Sisupala and Dantavakra (and finally Jaghai and Madhai In Mahaprabhu's lila ), but rather kali is an age that grants what is impossible in other ages : namely to fulfill the desire to be a scoundrel wholesale.
Kalki simply comes to wrap everything up by cleaning the slate to allow for satya yuga to come on the scene again (kind of like spring emerges from winter)

IOW the age of kali is essential to every divya yuga (cycle of satya, dvapara, treta and kali) much like winter is an essential season for every year

 

So who is Kali -male demon vs female goddess?

I understand the concept of cyclic destruction and regeneration, it is mortality that requires reproduction

 

the kali of kali yuga isn't really a demon (asura) - he is the personification of the age of kali - he has an encounter with maharaj pariksit while beating the personification of religious principles so sometimes he is understood as sin personified

the female goddess kali is lord siva's consort - she has a gruesome appearance because she is the ferocious aspect of material nature (many Bengalis joke about their wives or mother s in laws being Maa Kali when they go ballistic). As an expansion of Durga, Kali is commonly worshiped for material boons (and being somewhat gruesome in nature, her worship sometimes finds its way into nefarious tantric practices)

They are two different personalities who share the name (kind of like George Bush and Boy George share the same name)

 

How come you, of all people are asking this?

I thought these things were common knowledge for Indians.

I even saw a video of a "India's got talent" show or something like that, and one performance was avatars of Krishna, and there was also Kalki.
Edit: Here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWRz4hkndxg

 

Don't confuse Kali yuga with Goddess Kali.

None is a demon. Kali, male, is symbolic of dark age.

Lord Kalki is to appear at the end of Kali Yuga.

 

Godess Kali is pronounced as kAAli
whereas personified kali yuga is called kali or kali purusha.
Kalki, an avatar of Vishnu supposed to happen in kali yuga, is different from both.

 

OP mentions RV 10-62. Here it is in its entirety.
Hymn 10.62. HYMN LXII. Visvedevas, Etc.
1. YE, who, adorned with guerdon through the sacrifice, have won you Indra's friendship and eternal life,
Even to you be happiness, Angirases. Welcome the son of Manu, ye who are most wise.
2 The Fathers, who drave forth the wealth in cattle, have in the year's courses cleft Vala by Eternal Law:
A lengthened life be yours, O ye Angirases. Welcome the son of Manu, ye who are most wise.
3 Ye raised the Sun to heaven by everlasting Law, and spread broad earth, the Mother, out on every side.
Fair wealth of progeny be yours, Angirases. Welcome the son of Manu, ye who are most wise.
4 This kinsman in your dwellingplace speaks pleasant words: give car to this, ye Rsis, children of the Gods.
High Brahman dignity be yours, Angirases. Welcome the son of Manu, ye who are most wise.
5 Distinguished by their varied form, these Rsis have been deeply moved.
These are the sons of Angirases: from Agni have they sprung to life.
6 Distinguished by their varied form, they sprang from Agni, from the sky.
Navagva and Dasagva, noblest Angiras, he giveth bounty with the Gods.
7 With Indra for associate the priests have cleared the stable full of steeds and kine,
Giving to me a thousand with their eightmarked cars, they gained renown among the Gods.
8 May this man's sons be multiplied; like springing corn may Manu grow,
Who gives at once in bounteous gift a thousand kine, a hundred steeds.
9 No one attains to him, as though a man would grasp the heights of heaven.
Savarnya's sacrificial meed hath broadened like an ample flood.
10 Yadu and Turva, too, have given two Dasas, well-disposed, to serve,
Together with great store of kine.
11 Blest be the hamlet's chief, most liberal Manu, and may his bounty rival that of Surya.
May the God let Ssvarni's life be leng
thened, with whom, unwearied, we have lived and prospered.


If it is saffron BS, then kindly point out where a woman finds her brother in her bed?