The Holy Quran

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by EmptyForceOfChi, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. Sock puppet path GRRRRRRRRRRRR Valued Senior Member

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    3,112
    Just a few obvious ones

    the cow

    2:282 O ye who believe! When ye contract a debt for a fixed term, record it in writing. Let a scribe record it in writing between you (in terms of) equity. No scribe should refuse to write as Allah hath taught him, so let him write, and let him who incurreth the debt dictate, and let him observe his duty to Allah his Lord, and diminish naught thereof. But if he who oweth the debt is of low understanding, or weak, or unable himself to dictate, then let the guardian of his interests dictate in (terms of) equity. And call two witness from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not at hand, then a man and two women, etc etc

    SAQ

    4:11 Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females, and if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, etc etc

    4:43 O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying upon the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched women, and ye find not water, then go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands (therewith). Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.

    4:98 Except the feeble among men, and the women, and the children, who are unable to devise a plan and are not shown a way.

    SAQ 5

    5:6 O ye who believe! When ye rise up for prayer, wash you faces, and your hands up to the elbows, and lightly rub your heads and (wash) your feet up to the ankles. And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it. Allah would not place a burden on you, but He would purify you and would perfect His grace upon you, that ye may give thanks.
     
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  3. Big Chiller Registered Senior Member

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    Note the verse I quoted is explicit and these verses are quite ambiguous so for a 1400 year old book the Quran is looking infallible to me but maybe that's because I'm biased.

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    As for this one usually a woman is expected to enjoy the wealth of her husband if she can get married but if she cannot then her inheritance is equivalent to the male portion.
     
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  5. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Er: not sure what the Bible has to do with your argument (oh, well, I mean I do know why you're including it, we all know why you bring it up, but the convention is to pretend that we don't really know, so...you know; just carry on, I guess), but Sock answers it quite well:

    Not reeeallly, no.

    :thumbsup:

    Actually that's completely wrong, as illustrated via SPP's simple expedient of actually quoting the verse essentially verbatim.

    My salutations to SPP, who hath made a finer argument than I. If I take away an argument, doth he not leave a better one in its place?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2011
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  7. Big Chiller Registered Senior Member

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    Hats off to you for not really providing a reply.


    Wiki
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2011
  8. Bells Staff Member

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    23,249
    And?

    How many Christians do you see here gleefully declaring that men and women are not equal because apparently, 'God said so'? Last I knew, Geoffy boy there was a Christian and as much as I detest the little pleb, he's not declaring men and women are not equal and should not have equal rights. Nor are other Christians in this thread.

    What we have instead is someone who appears to be a throw back to the dark ages making comments such as:

    and..


    I'm sorry, but considering human beings to be equal regardless of sex is "unfair"? This is acceptable to you? Your response to that is to say that the bible also has men and women being deemed unequal?

    And again, the response to that is if a Christian piped up and commented that they were unequal, they would also be slapped down and educated about the basic principles of human rights.

    This is not something you should be defending.
     
  9. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Have you gone mad or blind?
     
  10. Big Chiller Registered Senior Member

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    And now you resort to ad hominem.
     
  11. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Well, I did give you a choice...

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    So, what was it about the answers I gave you that lead you to assert that they were no answers at all? I'm trying to find some common ground here but it's complicated by the fact that your replies don't jive with the material you're responding to.
     
  12. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Just a mo', here: Geoffy boy?

    Them's some rage you're wrangling. I thought diminunitives weren't allowed wi'in 'er rules an' all that? Some folks call it a sling blade.
     
  13. Bells Staff Member

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    23,249
    Let me get this straight.. We have a member saying that he does not think men and women are equal and that it is unfair to refer to them as being equal. And you are complaining that I called you 'Geoffy'? I did not turn your name into something rude, which is what the rules are meant to be for, but somewhat cutified your name for argument's sake. That is what you do isn't it? I am sure you have a macro for 'why she should not be moderator' by now, so PM away. But go on, report me. Don't forget to mention that I also said I thought you were a pleb in my sarcastic reply above, since you know, you seemed to not be indignant about that but more about the fact that I called you 'Geoffy'. If you are going to complain, find something at least worthwhile GeoffP.

    Thousand apologies GeoffP.

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    I regret the day I took you off ignore (the downside of being a moderator). But back on it you go for now. There is only so much of you I can take in a day without wanting to throw up and I am already plenty nauseous.

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    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011
  14. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry: is the one related to the other? Stick your 'cuteness'. No diminutives allowed. Read, or something.
     
  15. greenboy Registered Senior Member

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    263
    Here is another one

    The Muslim cult, force the women to fulfill only their assigned role by force, the Christian world allows women the freedom to fulfill the role she wants and the men wants, do not force one role or another, we have brilliant women minds and men minds assuming the role they want and making society a better place, any culture or in this case any cult forcing any gender any role developed by men. Is not from God. let me tell you, is segregation for optimization is done by personal choice I will agreed this is a good thing, but is imposed by force to the female gender mainly, and this is absolutly no acceptable, the Muslim religion fail as a religion and they impose themself because there is not other option.


     
  16. Arioch Valued Senior Member

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    2,274
    @Greenboy --

    Correction, the Post-Enlightenment world allows women the freedom to fulfill the roles they want to. Freedom isn't exactly a christian value, it's an Enlightenment value.
     
  17. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    This happens to be incorrect.

    1 Corinthians 11
    9 for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake.

    1 Corinthians 14
    As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

    1 Corinthians 11
    But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head--it is the same as if her head were shaven.

    1 Timothy 2
    Also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion. Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.

    Etc.
    Christianity is misogynist.
     
  18. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    christian tradition is misogynist..
    I corinthians 11
    2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you.

    he is explaining the traditions..not the rules.

    and it goes on to explain that women are not supposed to be sheep..IE
    I corinthians 11
    10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own[c] head, because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless,in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God

    it also goes on to equalize man and women..to put a disclaimer, so to speak, saying that those verses should not be used to propose that women are inferior to men.

    so then if you really want to take verses out of context what about this one;
    14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,

    so is this saying because jesus had long hair, he is disgraceful?

    then also the final disclaimer..
    16 If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.

    i think this says that if you want to make this an issue then there is no place for you in the church.

    context,context,context..
     
  19. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    18,951
    Hey, I'm just quoting the bible.
    Greenboy made a stupid over-generalised claim in his haste to condemn the Quran.
    Historically Christianity has made women into second-class citizens (if they let them THAT high in society).
    Women are freer now because most "Christian" societies tend to ignore the "rules" and go with rationality.

    Maybe we should go find a female Catholic priest and ask her opinion on misogyny in the church?
     
  20. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    5,478
    and using it to support your statement of his being incorrect.
    so in essence you are pulling verses out of context to support your argument..so..back at you..WRONG!

    i was just arguing context..

    True..doesn't make it right.

    careful..you may be accused of being a christian sympathizer..

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  21. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    Nope.
    If he wants to over-generalise then so can I.
    I was being a mirror for him in the hopes he'd realise.
    (Maybe too subtle).

    Aargh! God forbi..., er, I hope not.

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  22. NMSquirrel OCD ADHD THC IMO UR12 Valued Senior Member

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    two wrongs, eh?
     
  23. Arioch Valued Senior Member

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    @NM --

    It's called a reductio ad absurdum.
     

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