The Human Brain Is Incapable Of Volition Or Free Will

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by Steve Klinko, May 10, 2021.

  1. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    And what do human brains execute? Are you saying that article I quoted in post # 59 is wrong?
     
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  3. Sherlock Holmes Registered Member

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    The brain does not "execute" anything at all, there are no instructions, no registers, none of that, the only "algorithms" are human invented.

    I must have read a hundred articles like this over the years, they are often about models of intelligence implemented as algorithms in a computer but these are models, brains are nothing like computers.

    It is pure assumption that what the brain accomplishes can be accomplished by a symbol manipulating computer, there is no proof that the system comprising the brain can be treated as being logically equivalent to an algorithmic system.

    This is not controversial, what I say here is well known, established and covered in the literature.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2021
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I suggest you read some of the literature I have posted here.

    I don't care what you call it . The brain processes data provided by the senses in the form of electro-chemical bits. It does so in very specific ways that allows for the integration or orchestration of parallel "tokens" (qualia) from memory and results in a best guess of the brain as to what the body's senses are seeing, hearing, tasting, feeling. The process rests on mathematical electro-chemical laws and is not random. i.e. it employs some form of natural physical electro-chemical algorithms . The brain has no control over the process itself.

    It just has learned to make "sense" of it all. That is the function of evolution via natural selection. The evolution from responding to data from a light sensitive patch in a single celled organism, to a painting by Rembrandt.

    This form of computational processing is accomplished via several trillion microtubular processors feeding 250 trillion synaptic exchanges.

    The OP asks if this allows for the brain to exercise Free Will, or a more restrictive volitional Choice from possible alternative action.

    This problem is an extension of the evolutionary result of the fight or flight response. Prey evolved a flight response, predators evolved a fight response. Do human have a choice between the two? Did Rembrandt have a choice of colors in his painting. What if he painted a color , looked at it and decided to change it? FW, or Choice (volition), or purely Deterministic?
     
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  7. river

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    It misses the Experience Write4U . That is the thing , that it misses Experience . It by passes Physical Experience . The Complications of the Experience would have a computer running for infinity .

    There is knowledge in experience .

    The verification of any mathematical theory is based on physical evidence . Experience .
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2021
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I agree with all of that. But IMO, that 's not relevant here.
    GPT3 is not a biological species, where cell biology and memory play a major parts in the existence of the organism.

    (You know my enchantment with MT, which is responsible for any and all evolutionary processes of Eukaryotic organisms).

    AI does not need any of that. Robots do not grow, they are assembled.
     
  9. river

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    MT means , again what ? Not just for me but for everybody .
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    (microtubules)
     
  11. river

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    Thanks for the reminder .
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Published in 1972 ? 50 years ago?
    I submit it is a little out of date, in both fields of AI and Human brain.

    I believe the article in #59 is more relevant to today's state of the science.
     
  13. river

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    Post#60 by Sherlock Holmes , is excellent .
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sure his posit is well considered.
    Except the book he used for reference is 50 years out-of-date
     
  15. river

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    Is this book less True .
     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Well, science always advances in knowledge.
    I'll take the most current knowledge by a reliable source over old knowledge by a reliable source.

    From post # 59:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/11/161121165921.htm

    Moreover, GPT3 is not like an old computer, it is a new evolved species, that uses Qualia (tokens), which is very much like what biological brains do.

    Fundamentally all data processing uses the same principle, i.e. Input <--> Function <--> Output. The human brain is not exempt from the mathematics (physics) of the universe, much as we would like to think so.
     
  17. river

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    Write4U said:
    I'm sure his posit is well considered.
    Except the book he used for reference is 50 years out-of-date


    Is the book less true , today . ( From post#72 )
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2021
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    It would appear so.
     
  19. river

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    Explain .
     
  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Apparently Sherlock Holmes did read the book and based his statement that the human brain does not employ algorithm on what he learned from that book.

    50 years later the more advanced science declares that the human brain does use algorithms , in effect falsifying the older book.

    No deceit from anyone. Just a gradually evolution of scientific knowledge.
     
  21. river

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    Highlighted

    What advanced science ?
     
  22. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Contrary to the Biblical scripture Science does not stagnate, it is ever advancing, due to ability for more precise measurements and general understanding of how things work.

    A few centuries ago, the earth was flat and evolution was heresy. Since then Science has allowed us to go to the moon and down to nanoscale observation.

    You see, there is no practical application of biblical scripture, where all advancing technology rests on the practical application of advancing science.
     
  23. river

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    What are you on about ?

    Biblical scripture ? What has this have to do with anything ?
     

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