The Ineffability of God's Will

yes. when that's evident, and whether it will be evident to you personally isn't up to me though.

 

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yeah, i would say it's impossible. i mean, no one walks in someone else's shoes entirely, although we can share some similar experiences and feelings. what happened to me about 7 years ago was so terribly strange and difficult and important. one of the hardest things about dealing with it was an inability to share and be understood. given the nature and the meaning of it, even if people could understand, they didn't want to. even close family and friends. it was just too much and even though it was frustrating and isolating for me, in the end i couldn't blame them.

what happened was a progression of events, but when i'm referring to perspective in that quote, for an extended period of time, the best way i can describe it, is that it was like some being who was from a perfect place inhabited my body. from some place like the kingdom, or like heaven, or what we might call a utopia, where everyone truly loved each other, and always acted in accordance with the greater good, and were entirely free, and never lied, and never hated, and there was no greed or lust or pride or vanity or pollution or war or...any of the so many horrible things that drive our everyday existence here. and holy shit they were pissed off about being here. i could feel it. i could feel it's perspective. everything, and i mean everything, seemed so perverted and cumbersome and wrong. it damn near drove me insane. i was so frustrated and angry and sad. i couldn't stand my own skin. i wanted out. i wanted to tear it to shreds; to rip it off of me and escape. it was like i could feel the pollution and the sickness and the sin in it. and i could see it on other people to the point where they looked like caricatures wearing their disease. it was fucking horrible. i was so strung out.

it was as if all of my negative conditioning had been taken away. that's why i said earlier in the thread that people would be surprised at what they can get used to.

now i've always had hints at that perspective, when i was young, but i didn't really know why. i just remember, even as a small child thinking, "this is it? really? this is what we choose to do with our lives?" and things just seemed wrong, and i was disappointed. things were uncomfortable and just...something was very wrong.

and since the experience i of course have a residual perspective, although thank god, it's not nearly as intense as it was for that period of time. like i regained the negative conditioning, and it takes the edge off. but after having been through that, i can't help but feel sometimes like i'm walking around in a world full of blind people, and it sucks. it's really sad and frustrating.

 

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as far as i can tell i'm one of the very few who can see. you don't know what i went through, and your psychoanalytical fiction isn't relevant.

 

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well unless you're saying that the entire human race is mentally handicapped, it's safe to say we know the consequences now, and guess what? it doesn't change a damn thing. :shrug: so explain that.

god does communicate with me. god communicates with lots of people. it's what the entire bible is about. it's what the holy spirit does. god communicates in lots of ways and has a lot to say, and you know damn well that the majority of people don't want to hear it. that's not my fault.

because we keep buying into the lie. we don't have to you know.

i don't know what magical land you're thinking of, but here on earth, no matter what your age, your actions have consequences. it's just how it is.

because i'm not fucking retarded and blind that's how. i'm honest. i can honestly look at the consequences of greed and hate and lust and pride and lies and sloth and i can say "these are wrong". i can look at the consequences of true love and selflessness and generosity and honestly and trustworthiness, and i can say "these are right". i'm sorry, but most people just can't stand to admit there's anything wrong with them. i'm not afraid to admit that about myself.

listen, this is easy. if you continue to reject god indefinitely, then you will suffer the consequences of that indefinitely. you don't have to. :shrug:

 

In other words: you can't.
More delusion. Ho hum...

 

no, those are your words based on what you want to hear.

what i said is that it will be evident, yes it will.

 

When?

 

i don't know. i'm waiting.

i can and have seen plenty of evidence that confirms and explains what happened to me, but you deny that evidence. partially because you didn't live through what i did and you don't understand it, and partially because even if i try to explain it to you, you don't want to believe it so you tell me i'm full of shit (in so many words).

 

So in other words this is just another unsupported claim.

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You have no evidence.

I have no reason to believe it. And I actually used the word "delusional" not "full of shit".

 

i do have evidence, you just don't believe it. i'm sure i've told you about the artists involved. the evidence is in their lives and in their music, just like it's in my life and in my perspective and what i'm testifying to. you have no reason not to believe me.

 

Nope. You have subjective experience.

Yeah, another claim. (Whatever that is: you haven't told me, and I don't remember seeing it anywhere).

Still wrong.
You make claims, you don't have anything to show. End of story.

 

'ability to comprehend'(subjective) and 'being an adult'(again subjective) is not mutually exclusive
where is the line..

what about the marginally mental?

hmm..how long does it take to murder someone? what is the sentence?

and here i spout my Adam and Eve..

"In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

we assume they only know Good,like children as you say 'innocent'

“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

then we grow up..someone comes along and suggests a different way..

"and also desirable for gaining wisdom,"

ah a desire to seek other ways..

"Then the eyes of both of them were opened,"

they now know of more than one way..

"To the woman he said,"

how do we know that they weren't like that already?

"So the LORD God banished him"

oops..time to grow up and make our own way in the world..
can't sit around sponging off of God anymore.(tough love?)

I do not agree with they way God is presented in these stories,it reads of perspective..have your parents ever kicked you out? (or similar verb)..
if your life was comfortable, odds are you didn't want to leave..
(did you regret it?)(did you hate them for kicking you out?)
the story that is presented is that of the perspective of the one being kicked out, written at the time he was kicked out..

i think we have learned a few things since then..
we are still working on the responsibility part of this experience,specially when religion promotes irresponsibility by its very premise (believe as we do, or go away)..

Thank you God for kicking us out of the Garden of Eden, we would not be so knowledgeable as a species (see "and also desirable for gaining wisdom,") ,
((what would the garden of Eden look like with all of humanity in it?hmm))

i will say it again..IT IS NOT PUNISHMENT!
(sorry..i'm ok now..)

 

I'm a bit confused here, Lori. You have told me that God IS a dick and that God indeed set up A&E all so they would eat of the apple. So which is it? What you typed above of what you've been saying for a long while?

Also, there is a part in the Bible where Moses was able to get God to change his mind from not destroying Isreal. You are telling me God can't change is mind? That he's not "God" enough to spare the world from his wrath? Plus, you talk about his law but as a God he could change his law- just like he changed his mind with Moses.

Because he's a dick you've already said. Yep, striking a husband and wife dead because they kept some money from selling their own property- I'm sure must make sense on down the road. After all it is "God" that did it, so it must be right. :bugeye:

Look, I know how you feel about homosexuals and how you feel we can't have "sex" because only men and women can have sex. Only men and women can fuck. blah blah blah blah *throws up a universal gesture* I'm so sick and tired of you trying to belittle how the fuck I have sex or tell me that I can't have a marriage/love kind of relationship just because I'm not with a dude. How it's not right in God's eyes. That my partner or I would have to have a dick before we could "be right" in God's eyes. I'm tired of the insults. I'm tried of hearing it and how you are so superior because you can "fuck" and we can't. I'll tell you what I can and do. I love my partner with my entire being and when we have our intimate moments with or without porn involved...every part of me loves her. I just wouldn't share something so intimate with just anyone. I love her and cherish every moment with her. I can love her with a marriage/partnership kind of love just like you do your husband. My relationship is every bit as loving as any man or woman's. We don't have to fuck just like you do in order for it to be every bit as much of a marriage/partnership as yours.

 

where the hell did that rant come from? you're the one who brought up masturbation. that wasn't an insult; it's just a fact that you attest to yourself.

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also, that is not how i've treated you or what i've expressed to you during discussions about homosexuality. i think you're projecting a lot of crap on me because i'm a christian that i really don't attest to or consider. you've always done that to me. in fact, i would say that i've had to defend myself to you much more than you have to me, because i'm a christian, and you have been treated very poorly by christians. a lot of christians, and most people for that matter, do not consider things in the same way i do. we've been round and round about this.

as far as god is concerned; god isn't a human, so trying to think of god in human terms and with human attributes and emotions is not correct. i don't like that the bible does it. from what i know it's inaccurate. when i say god is a dick, what i mean is that god isn't emotional like a human. god is law, and the law is correct.

 

God killed them for lying . Not for holding there money back . Kind of like Al Capone would do . So is God a Thug? Someone said that already didn't they ?

 

Have you ever managed to connect with other people who have been through a similar experience?

Just curious. I'm certain there are others....
The work filter blocks this site, so it may or may not be helpful:
http://spiritualemergency.blogspot.com

I've read this book on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0SH06BSYPESR6TWSYK8F

You still seem to have a tinge of that anger...well, more than a tinge.
My spiritual experiences were...I guess more like Zen Satori...and as I'm getting older I'm just sort of...not angry, and I seem to be growing a lot of compassion...trying to have some for myself, which is absolutely counter to programming.

I just see more clearly that we're all so confused here.

Marbles still getting shuffled. Not as painfully. Self-transformation is something I've done several times...always very painful.

Pardon that ramble, y'all.

 

You can have sex with who ever you want as long as they are legal . Otherwise expect prison for molestation . Other than that go for it if your partner is willing . I would not personally do anything dangerous that might endanger your self or the other people. You never know when things might go bad and whamo more prison time, or god forbid someone unintentionally gets hurt

 

Ummm...guessing there's some sort of internecine drama I'm not getting here...haven't got that from Lori.

Otoh she did think I was a guy...:huh:

 

that looks like a good book. there was definitely quite a storm going on inside me. it's subsided now for the most part. if you think i'm angry now, shit, you should have seen me then. i was so desperate. it was extremely hard to take. i felt like i was in hell.

and no i never thought to look for a forum like that. i tried to reach out to the people around me, and i scared people. i tried to reach out to people who i don't know personally, but i know were involved in what happened to me, but they are untouchables. so i felt like i was locked in a cage for a long time. i felt like a rat in a cage, and like these untouchables, or god, or whatever it was doing it would periodically poke me to initiate a response, and people witnessed my reaction. it wasn't pretty. i came out here and tried to talk about it, and i think you can guess the response i was given. i talked to heart quite a bit, and even though she didn't understand, it was nice to have someone listen without judging me or acting as if they were afraid.

i'm ok now. but i do get frustrated that so many people are so blind, or are so in denial about things that if they just opened their eyes and their minds are so obvious and evident all around them. it makes me angry that no one wants to admit that there's anything wrong with them. it's so sad, and it's so malicious.

 

sorry. this forum is heavily male though, and you don't sound like a typical woman (that's a good thing). i suppose i am a bit sexist.

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