The Inter Mind

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by Steve Klinko, Dec 18, 2020.

  1. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    No, everything else, that exists, is Outside the Box. The solution is most likely Outside the Box. Could be Inside the Box, but it is doubtful after a Hundred years of looking Inside the Box.
     
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  3. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you feel it is an "embarrassment" to have open questions in science?
    By that logic, anything not currently known is an embarrassment. The only way science could succeed, in your eyes, is if it has solved everything to solve and closed its doors.

    Don't be such a drama queen.
     
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  5. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    To me it seems you are saying
    No-one knows what conscessness is
    Let's call it blah blah blah
    We don't know what blah blah blah is but at least we are thinking about it in a different way

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  7. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    No, as I say again and again, Science does not need to Explain everything about all Phenomenon, but Science should at least have a Clue about any Phenomenon in particular. Science has Zero Clues about Conscious Experience itself, which is why it is the Hard Problem of Conscious Experience. What is Redness, the Standard A Tone, or the Salty Taste? How is it that we Experience these things. What is the Thing that is Experiencing these things. Difficult questions. If Science does not do better at figuring these things out then Religious concepts will necessarily fill the Vacuum. Religious concepts also get us nowhere.
     
  8. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, the old ways of looking at Blah Blah Blah are obviously not working.
     
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    That is not "obvious" at all.

    By what historical precedent do you determine how long it should take to solve the Hard Problem of Consciousness?
     
  10. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    You appear to have missed the point entirely

    How does changing CONSCESSNESS into BLAH BLAH BLAH give science a new way of looking at it?

    Quote here - The Bard something about a rose

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  11. river

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    From post#123

    Steve

    Life . Life needs no religion , Life exists anyway .
     
  12. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Ah but first you need to convince science that there is a hard "problem" to be solved in the first place. This is far from clear.

    Science works by evaluating objective observations - or as close to objective as we can get, by means of insisting that observations be reproducible, in different places by different people. So if one poses a question such as "What it is like to be a bat?", science can't help.

    Or, if one asks what makes a sensation "feel like" something, it is far from clear what sort of reproducible observations one could make to tackle such a question. If there are none, then the question being asked is not a scientific one.

    There is a further issue: for a theory to be scientific, it must be testable by observation. It should be able to make successful predictions of what we should be able to observe. Reproducibly, of course.

    So tell me, if you say you have a theory of consciousness, what observations could people make to test your theory?
     
  13. river

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    All 6 senses tested at the same time at the same moment . And continuous in seconds , minutes , hours , days etc .

    Which Happens Daily , 24/7 , 365 days a year , every year .
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  14. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    I'm betting no observations to build a theory to test via making predictions

    Perhaps a reference read the web site

    I'm waiting for the reveal where this blah blah blah comes out as

    Universal Cosmic Consciousness (perhaps that has been overused)

    So it might be the new kid on the block a

    Quantum Physics Entanglement of the Universal Mind

    Place your bets

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  15. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    Life needs no Religion or Science to exist.
     
  16. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    I think your words are admitting that Science is not able to deal with Conscious Experience at this point in time. This is why I have been saying we need new Concepts and new Perspectives in order to deal with Conscious Experience.
     
  17. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    Maybe I did miss your point. What was the BLAH BLAH BLAH, supposed to mean?
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    We could start with considering "hard facts"....

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    , instead of asking the "hard question".....

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  19. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    Ok, go for it.
     
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    He's saying you claim 'the existing mind model is useless' - but that your new mind model makes a merely semantic change. i.e.: How does creating a new word salad to replace the old word salad actually shed any light on the issue?
     
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  21. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    No, I'm suggesting science will never be able to deal with the so-called "hard problem" of consciousness, specifically, because to science there simply is no "problem" to solve. The "problem", if there is one at all, is philosophical, not scientific. I'm with Massimo Pigliucci on this: https://philosophynow.org/issues/99/What_Hard_Problem

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    Science is getting by degrees a fairly good handle on consciousness in terms of objectively observable factors, viz. the neural activity in the brain and what affects this, via anaesthesia, the effects of injury, sleep and so forth. But if you ask a question that is about something that has no objectively observable effects, it is ipso facto outside science.

    So, while you may say "we" (whoever "we" may be) need new concepts, perspectives or whatever, you should not bring any of this stuff to a science forum and expect to get a favourable hearing for it.
     
  22. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    You have obviously not read the website: http://TheInterMind.com. It is way more than a semantic change. It is basically a Paradigm change from current thinking. It is truly an Alternate Perspective on Conscious Experience, from the current Mainstream Beliefs.
     
  23. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    435
    Ok, but that is exactly why I post in a Science Forum. I have found the Science to be lacking when it comes to Conscious Experience. I am talking about the Deficiencies of the Science with respect to Conscious Experience. This is certainly an appropriate issue for a Science Forum. If anyone could show me a good Scientific Explanation for Conscious Experience, then ok I'll be satisfied. But saying that it Emerges from the Neurons is unacceptable. This is a Belief, not an Explanation. But if that is your Belief then I can only implore you to think more Deeply about the Conscious Experience itself. How can it just spontaneously be produced by the Neurons? There is a huge Explanatory Gap here. There is no Chain of Logic to get from Neural Activity to Redness, or the Standard A Tone, or the Salty Taste. This is the classic Hard Problem of Conscious Experience.
     

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