The Inter Mind

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by Steve Klinko, Dec 18, 2020.

  1. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    There is no explanatory gap from a science viewpoint. There is no definition of "experience" with any tangible meaning, or any objective means of detecting or measuring it. You certainly have not offered one, in spite of being invited to do so.

    So there is no "problem" and nothing to study.
     
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I have been, but you are not paying attention!
     
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    The Crackpot index was written 22 years ago. Isn't it amazing how applicable is still is.

    Crackpot index #19: 10 points for claiming that your work is on the cutting edge of a "paradigm shift".
    https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html

    You're just rackin' up the points Steve. There is a teachable moment here for you.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2020
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  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    I'm curious as to why when asked about any aspect of this ground breaking shift whatever the reply is a fob off to a web site

    Just suspect

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  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    He's not here to defend or discuss his ideas, he's here to drive traffic to his site.
     
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  9. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    That's rather the conclusion I came to.

    I wonder where all the capital letters come from. Could he be German?
     
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  10. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Agree

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  11. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    There you have it. You are dismissing a Phenomenon that is at the very core of what you are. Are you Sentient at all? If so what is the Logic to dismiss Conscious Experiences? You are putting your head in the sand. It's not Scientific to say that there is no way to measure Conscious Experience so it does not Exist. The duty of Science is to go find a way to measure Conscious Experience.
     
  12. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    If you don't actually read the website then you are asking questions because you don't have the full picture. The whole point is that you read the website and then give me feed back. But instead you ask questions that are answered in the text of the website. I understand if you don't want to take the time to fully read and understand what the website says. I have already gotten some good feedback that I have put into the website. That is why I reference the website. To make it better. It is a work in progress.
     
  13. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    The Logic of my Arguments is inescapable if you actually Read and Consider what the website says. You don't have to Agree or understand but if you at least try I will be happy.
     
  14. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    My ideas are on the website. The website first attempts to Deprogram people from thinking in the old ways, and then tries to get people to think Outside the Box. It's an almost impossible task to get people to think in New Ways, but I try anyway. It's ok if you don't want to read the website but don't expect me to spoon feed the whole website to you in bits and pieces when you can just go read it.
     
  15. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    I have nowhere said there is no such thing as conscious experience. That would be like saying there is no such thing as love. What I am saying - and it's not just me: Massimo Pigliucci has the same scepticism - is that the so-called "hard problem" is not a problem with any meaning, so far as science is concerned. It is about something entirely subjective and personal.

    You can write what you like about conscious experience but it will not be science, that's all.
     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Hard facts are science. And if consciousness is an emergent property of hard facts, science should be able to find answers to the hard problem.
     
  17. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    It is not Science yet. But I am trying to change that. Conscious Experience is a Phenomenon that is happening in the Manifest Universe. Open your Eyes, and your Ears and Experience the Light and the Sound that is inside your Conscious Mind. It has always been there but it has been Censored by a Century of Physicalist Doctrine. It actually is naïve beyond belief that Science will not Discover and incorporate into Science many new Concepts and Phenomena in the future. It seems that the Physicalists Believe that all the Science that will ever be Discovered is already Discovered. The Hard Problem is alive and well and kicking at the door of Physicalist Dogma.
     
  18. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    Hard Facts indeed are Science. But the Existence of Conscious Experience is a Hard Fact, so it must be Scientific in so far as the Existence of the Phenomenon. The missing element is to be able to say something Scientific about the Phenomenon. I can do that. Redness is a Property of the Redness Experience Phenomenon. Wavelength is not a Property of the Redness Experience Phenomenon. Wavelength is a Property of Red Electromagnetic Light Phenomenon. Redness is not a Property of the Red Electromagnetic Light Phenomenon. In other words Conscious Phenomena have their own special Properties, that Science must get a handle on.
     
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Wrong, Hard facts are physical processes. Consciousness is not a physical process. It is an emergent experience from physical processes, but we don't know which physical processes, yet.

    Therefore it is a Hard question to a whole series of Hard facts. Science is working on the examination of these Hard facts to discover all the hard details involved in the emergence of emotion.

    IMO, it is a problem of electro/bio-chemistry, such as experiencing the effects of endorphins, or anesthesia and resides mainly in experiential memory, which also allows us to chemically experience the emotional experiences of others via empathic (cognitive) responses.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2021
  20. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    Conscious Experience is a Hard Fact of your Existence and everybody else's Existence. Conscious Experience will be a new Class of Mental Processes that Science will eventually be forced to adopt. Science will need to think outside the Box for this one.
     
  21. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    To make anything scientific about this, you will need to propose some objective observation that can be made about conscious experience, so that it can be studied scientifically.

    What do you propose to measure?
     
  22. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    I'll wait until it is

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  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    What is the "physical" difference between a conscious mind and an unconscious mind? Nothing!
    The difference lies in the differential equations between the states of activity.
     

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