The Inter Mind

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by Steve Klinko, Dec 18, 2020.

  1. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    Conscious Experience is a Phenomenon that happens in the Mind. Science cannot measure Conscious Experience yet so the first goal of Science is to figure out how to do that. But when people keep saying the problem is already solved they stifle any Scientific work in this direction. My job is to keep broadcasting that the problem of Conscious Experience is not solved, and that there are elements within Science that are actively suppressing any work on Conscious Experience.

    I have designed some Experiments that attempt to show evidence of a Conscious Aspect, in this case Volition: https://www.theintermind.com/MachConExperiment/MachConExperiment.asp

    Also click here for some thoughts on the Conceivability of doing Experiments with regard to Consciousness:
    https://theintermind.com/#Conceivability
     
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  3. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    Of course you are messing with me with that kind of stuff.
     
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  5. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    You will miss out on the fun. But I understand.
     
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  7. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    No you explain here how you propose to do this, in line with forum rules. I'm not going off to boost the traffic to your site.
     
  8. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    Sorry, it's too complicated for a post. By you going to the website you are boosting traffic by a count of one. Wow. Of course you are just messing with me. But by you making a big deal over this, some other Visitors will probably be intrigued by your refusal and go to the website. Thank You for the inadvertent Traffic Boost.
     
  9. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    That is actually exactly what is expected.

    We are here for discussion; we are not here to boost your page hit count.
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    No, I am not!

    You tell me the physical difference between a conscious mind and an unconscious mind, other than the information it is processing.

    The hard fact is there is no difference in structure, only in activity. If you are anesthetized only your self-awareness is gone, nothing else has anatomically changed that makes YOU not YOU anymore. It is only the self-referential information processing patterns that have changed.
    YOU are gone, but your physical homeostasis doesn't change. Theoretically you can live in a vegetative state for a long time. Hard facts!

    So what is the anatomical difference between a conscious YOU and an unconscious YOU?
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
  11. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    435

    The Scientific and Physicalist view is that Consciousness is somehow located in the Neurons. It is a reasonable assumption given that Conscious Activity is Correlated with Neural Activity. But Science has no Theory, Hypothesis, or even a Speculation about how Consciousness could be in the Neurons. Science has not been able to show for example, how something like the Experience of Redness is some kind of effect of Neural Activity. In fact, the more you think about the Redness Experience and then think about Neural Activity, the less likely it seems that the Redness Experience is actually some sort of Neural Activity. Science has tried in vain for a hundred years to figure this out. If the Experience of Redness actually was in the Neurons, Science would have had a lot to say about it by now. Something has got to be wrong with their perspective on the problem.


    The Inter Mind Model can accommodate Consciousness as being in the Neurons, but it can also accommodate other concepts of Consciousness. The Inter Mind Model is structurally a Connection Model, in the sense that the Physical Mind (PM) is connected to the Inter Mind (IM) which is connected to the Conscious Mind (CM). These Connections might be conceptual where all three Minds are actually in the Neurons. But these Connections might have more reality to them where the PM, the IM, and the CM are separate things. I will Speculate that the situation is more like the latter than the former. In that case the PM, which is in Physical Space (PSp), uses the IM to create a Connection to the CM, which is in Conscious Space (CSp). The important perspective change here is that the PM is Connected to the CM, rather than assuming that the PM contains the CM as part of the PM. This allows the CM to be a thing in itself existing in it’s own CSp.


    The inability of Science to solve the problem of Consciousness is the main driver for looking at other perspectives. Insisting that Consciousness is in the Neurons and is just some artifact of Neural Activity is getting us nowhere. Not only is Science unable to Explain Consciousness as Neural Activity, it is also unable to provide the first clue as to what something like the Experience of Redness actually is. Things like Redness, the Standard A Tone, and the Salty Taste, are Conscious Experiences. These kinds of Conscious Experiences are some sort of Phenomena that exist in the Reality of the Manifest Universe, but they are in a Category of Phenomena that Science cannot yet explain. It is therefore Sensible and Logical to Speculate a place for them to exist. This of Course is CSp.


    At the developmental level we now will have the PM developing in PSp and a separate CM developing in CSp. There is also an IM which is developing the Connections between the PM and the CM. The CM is no longer trapped in the PM which is in PSp. The CM now has a separate development and existence in CSp. Maybe an IM, along with a CM, inhabits and uses a PM from conception. The IM and CM grow as a particular PM grows. First there is only one cell, then there are two, then three, and four, and so on until a fully formed PM, IM, and CM are produced. Could an IM attach to a fully formed PM and just start using it? Or does an IM need to grow as a PM grows in order to properly use it? There is probably a developmental aspect involved in PM, IM, and CM connections. The act of growing from a single cell might be absolutely necessary for an IM and CM to exist. The IM might eventually be in contact with every cell in the PM. Maybe the only way an IM can be in control of trillions of Neurons is if, as the PM slowly develops, the IM learns how to use each cell. It is thought that it is possible that recognition of objects and faces comes down to one cell firing. An IM must know what that particular cell means when it fires in order to send a feeling of Recognition to a CM.


    We can make some statements about things that are in the CM and things that are in the PM. For example, the CM is where the Experiences of Redness, the Standard A Tone, and the Salty Taste are located. The CM is also where the Conscious Self is located. Examples of things that are located in the PM are Memory, Pattern Recognition, Eye Convergence/Tracking, and Balance.


    Separating the CM from the PM allows a whole new perspective for understanding various operational aspects of Consciousness. Some previous experimental deductions and conclusions about Consciousness may have to be overturned when using this new perspective. For example, this separation provides a new way of understanding the effect of Anesthesia. With the old perspective the reasoning was like this: The Neural Activity was halted and Consciousness seemed to also be halted so therefore Consciousness must be in the Neurons. With the new perspective the reasoning would be: The Neural Activity was halted and Consciousness seemed to be halted so therefore the Connection must have been interrupted. With this new perspective Consciousness itself was not halted but rather the Connection from the PM to the CM was interrupted. We don't know what the CM does during an interruption, but since Anesthesia can halt Memory operations the CM will not have any access to Memories of the Interruption after the Connection is reestablished.



    It is time for Science to think more outside the Box with regard to Consciousness, and hopefully this Connection Perspective will inspire Research in new directions that might someday solve the Problem of Consciousness.
     
  12. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    Hit counts are irrelevant. Getting a complete understanding is the point.
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Science has yet to think inside the box. According to Penrose this goes all the way down to neural quantum processes, an as yet under-explored area.

    IMO, quantum entanglement is the only known meta-physical phenomenon, which would qualify as non direct physical information sharing.
    Any thoughts on this by anyone?
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
  14. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    This is a Speculation by Penrose with no Scientific basis. Penrose has been highly criticized for these kinds of Blasphemous thoughts.
     
  15. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    You have not read anything about the Machine Consciousness Experiments which specify Quantum Tunneling as the Connection from the Conscious Mind to the Physical Mind (Brain). I have also suggested that Quantum Fluctuation might be implicated in Conscious Volition. Unless you get on board with the Connection Perspective you will miss and not understand these obvious candidates: https://www.theintermind.com/MachConExperiment/MachConExperiment.asp

    You will not understand the Conceivability of doing Machine Consciousness Experiments if you don't understand the Connection Perspective:
    https://theintermind.com/#Conceivability
     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Using Flash RAM devices?

    Explain "Conscious space" v "Space that enables conscious information sharing".

    Is Empathy a result of "conscious space" or a result of "conscious observation through space"?
     
  17. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sure river and Write4U will be happy to engage with you.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
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  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    In this forum of course......

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  19. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Steve Klinko:

    You have now linked to your own website many times. I think that's enough advertising.

    If people here want to view your site, they know where to find it.

    You are very welcome to discuss your ideas here, of course, but we do have limits on users who come here mostly to promote their own enterprises.
     
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  20. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, Flash RAM.

    "Conscious Space" is where Conscious Experiences happen. Don't know what "Space that enables conscious information sharing" is.

    I don't study things like Empathy, or any other Emotions. I study things like Redness, Standard A Tone, and Salty Taste.
     
  21. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    Ok, no more website link posts. But to answer some of the questions I would need to post large paragraphs from the website anyway. It just seems more efficient to simply post the link.
     
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    You don't really. Discussion fora are meant for dialogue, not for monologue.

    Put forth one tenet/claim. There's no point in making further claims until and unless the first one is accepted. We saw this problem in the first few posts of this thread.
     
  23. Steve Klinko Registered Senior Member

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    A long answer is not a Monologue, it's just a long answer.
     

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