The Language of Physics.

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Write4U, Aug 14, 2020.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    They don't.
    Why would they? Their mechanisms and means produce the patterns we see directly and empirically; any time or resources spent on the abstraction and simplification necessary to create and employ mathematical functions that approximately describe what they just did would be completely wasted.
     
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  3. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    I disagree, the plants do the math and employ mathematical growth functions.

    Anthropomorphising at its best

    Of course they don't know they do that. The mathematical growth instructions eventually become hardwired in the DNA, by natural selection.

    No they don't. PHYSICS does not become wired into DNA by any sort of selection

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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    The growth instruction is a simple equation, one size fits all.
    What mechanisms and means? The mathematics are applied 1 step at a time. No one is wasting time. Au contraire, it is one of the most efficient growth pattern in nature for a number of purposes. It is orderly and functional, just what nature likes. That's why it survived natural selection and became part of the DNA growth instruction. It is a "common denominator' in a host of dynamic natural growth patterns and part of the DNA growth instructions in biological organisms.
    The Fibonacci sequence is not a physical thing, it is a exponential (mathematical) growth pattern.
    Growth in biological patterns are contained in DNA growth instructions. The information why and how a plant grows its branches and leaves via Fibonacci patterns are contained in the organisms DNA growth instructions.

    WHY DO FIBONACCI NUMBERS APPEAR IN PATTERNS OF GROWTH IN NATURE? A MODEL FOR TISSUE RENEWAL BASED ON ASYMMETRIC CELL DIVISION

    1. Introduction
    https://www.fq.math.ca/Papers1/55-5/Boman.pdf
     
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  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    DNA operates as per physics

    How far down this rabbit hole do you wish to go? For me it stops here

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  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    So does a computer program. When will you understand the nature of "information"?

    DNA is a biological memory stick. It holds the growth instruction for the organism for its entire life.
     
  9. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Because that is how physics fits stuff together

    Physics fits stuff together, Minions call some of this fitted together stuff information, and / or instruction

    Physics follows said information / instruction (note - labelled post action by physics). It follows BECAUSE IT HAS NO CHOICE

    Minions have gotten good at reading some of the information / instruction and can make predictions re the reactions which will flow from the
    information / instruction being followed

    Confidence in the prediction is due to the fact physics has no choice but to follow the information / instruction. They are ONE option out of a grand total of ONE option

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  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Right, that's how nature determined via "natural selection", how things fit together in the most efficient way.
    The result is a logical outcome of the gradual evolution of regular sets of growth pattern instructions in the organism's DNA.
    That's why;

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    What does DNA do:
    https://www.genome.gov/about-genomics/fact-sheets/Deoxyribonucleic-Acid-Fact-Sheet#

    These are physical interactions, but the way they interact is based on the specific "values" of the DNA "words" which must be executed with mathematical rigor to yield reliable results. Natural selection is also responsible for the adoption of DNA mathematics as a reliable coding system for making exact copies and knowing when to start growth, when to stop growth, and what patterns growth itself must follow. This is what makes the mathematical function as the ideal candidate for universal dynamical growth functions, not the other way around. The universe is a mathematical pattern, because that's the only way it can function in an orderly manner.
     
  11. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    There is no natural selection of physics

    Physics turns up with a "1 am here" attitude and "I am your only choice"

    What about "I am your only choice"?

    Perfect for a function in an orderly manner system


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  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Right, the only possible functional choice is the regularity of "mathematical (algebraic) functions" at all times. We know physics is based on the interaction of relational values (of all kinds) interacting via mathematical functions.
    Just as time and space are inextricably connected, so is universal physics inextricably connected to the mathematical functions as we have observed them to function everywhere equally.

    In a self-referential system one of the inevitable patterns (among others) that will emerge;
    0 + 1 = 1
    1 + 1 = 2
    1 + 2 = 3
    2 + 3 = 5
    3 + 5 = 8
    etc.
     
  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you keep pushing "mathematical (algebraic) functions" into the mix

    PHYSICS did very well until Minions stuffed up big with

    "that looks nice, we will call that form and forms like it patterns" and

    "if we put this number (invented abstract) here along with another (invented abstract) here we can make a new (invented abstract). Aren't we clever"

    Should have stuck with "physics does produce nice looking snrettaps when physics works with this stuff"

    NOT Right, the only possible functional choice is the regularity of "mathematical (algebraic) functions" at all times.

    It's Right, the only possible PHYSICAL choice is the regularity of PHYSICAL ARRANGEMENTS at all times.

    We know physics is based on the interaction of relational values (of all kinds)

    Only because we CALL THEM relational values on perfectly good PHYSICAL VALUES. Minions stuff up AGAIN

    My contention is only one exists

    Only only only because Minions linked them. We (us Minions) will put this PHYSICAL ARRANGEMENT with this mathematical function

    Of course. Why when you invent a abstract system are you surprised it looks like your invention?

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  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That is the mathematical part of everything. The way all "values" (physical or otherwise) are being processed. In theory as observed in reality.

    (VALUE) INPUT --> (ALGEBRAIC) FUNCTION --> (VALUE) OUTPUT = MATHEMATICAL PROCESS.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Did you miss

    Right, the only possible PHYSICAL choice is the regularity of PHYSICAL ARRANGEMENTS at all times.

    ?

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  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Are you religous? What you just posted suggests of appearance of "irreducible complexity" from "physics"?
    All of physics start with the evolution of dynamical metaphysics.

    Evolution from the "very subtle to gross expression in reality" (David Bohm) is all there is and Evolution is a mathematical discipline. And why not? It is LOGICAL, no?
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    15,852
    Actually there are some variable physical arrangements of H2O . Water, Ice, Vapor, depending on the mathematical environmental values.

    If you can prove physics function physically in a mathematical regular manner, you are proving the metaphysically existence of Mathematics as an independent abstract property of spacetime and by extension physics itself.

    Physics is the scientific anthropomorphisation of universal mathematical relational values and mathematical processes. It evolves from an implication to a physical expression in reality. How else are we able to predict the future to a fairly high degree of confidence.

    If the mathematics hold for human expectation, it holds for any and all expectation, no? Anthropo.......... is the human interpretation and symbolization of everything, but that does not make the underlying logic false!

    What is stuff to you may not be stuff to someone else. But all stuff may be expressed as mathematical values to all ......

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino

    Not really physical anymore, is it? It's just a variable value, dependent on it's pattern.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  18. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    10,159
    As physics is a human endeavour, by which mankind studies aspects of nature quantitatively, the languages used are first and foremost words, to define the concepts and the quantities to be worked with, and then mathematics, to show the relationships between these quantities and construct models to predict their behaviour.

    And, er, that's it.
     
  19. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Posts Number 154 to long not read, skipped through

    Strange after Big Bang happened (not shown to be physics caused but a reasonable hypothesis) mathematics non existent

    Stuff is stuff even if stuff gets down to being small tiny bits of stuff

    Noooooo complexity is multiple parts needing to be present as a group to be able to operate. If one part not present the rest of the group cannot work

    I am about irreducibly simplicity

    Considering stuff didn't come into existence until the Universe, as it was then, cooled allowing stuff and anti stuff to form and then eliminating most of itself (back to energy???) in the stuff / anti stuff annihilation clean up

    So we come to the current situation where stuff won the conflict and Universe has more stuff then anti stuff

    Our Universe has finished in a unstable state since the combination of expansion and cooling lead to there being more stuff then anti stuff

    Stay tuned for a revelation - some Minions are working on it

    Me I am going to drop out (AGAIN) and do a bit more concentrating on my helpful assistant

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  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    WHERE ONCE THERE WAS.........PRIOR STUFF ?????
    WAS THERE ALWAYS STUFF, EVEN BEFORE THERE WAS STUFF?
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    15,852
    I agree. But if human mathematical models are sufficient to predict future outcomes, then does that not suggest a mathematical aspect to universal machinations? If the shoe fits...?
     
  22. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    I'm out remember but since there are ads on TV and Kipti is out buying dinner and this is a short reply

    Was there stuff before stuff??

    Unknown

    Speculation suggest (only for our Universe stuff) there was energy

    Before the energy before our Universe

    Here be a big unknown

    Dinner just arrived

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  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Bon Appetit....

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    I agree with the concept of a fundamentally energetic dynamical state. (Bohm's "pure potential" from which the physical universe emerges in an evolutionary hierarchy of mathematical orders.)

    But is energy stuff? Does all energy have the same properties? Does energy give rise to stuff of different kinds?

    How do we know or are able to measure any difference between energy and stuff and stuff assembled in patterns, if at all? How does the Universe know?

    Does the universe "know" how things work, or does it "work" without needing to know how?

    If it does not need to know how things work, on what regularity does the universe depend to do the "work" (function), if at all ?.........

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    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020

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