The Logical Method to Learn a Language

Discussion in 'Linguistics' started by Asexperia, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. Asexperia Valued Senior Member


    As the name implies, this method is based on Logic. Logic is the science that teaches us to think correctly. The forms of thought are: the concept, the judgment and the reasoning. The concept is the idea or mental representation of something. The judgment is the affirmation or negation that is made about something. The reasoning is the relation established between concepts and / or judgments to obtain a new knowledge or conclusion.

    The first stage of the Logical Method to Learn a Language is to integrate new words into our vocabulary. We must learn the greatest number of words. The second stage of the LoMeLL is to learn many phrases and expressions of common use. The third stage of LoMeLL is to study Grammar as a corrective form of the language.

    Traditional methods used in the teaching of a second language include aspects of Grammar since the beginning of the course.
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  3. Asexperia Valued Senior Member


    The natural method to learn a language is exclusive to children and young people.
    In childhood the objects that we have in front of us are associated with their name.
    We learn words through a process of abstraction. When we do not know the meaning of a word we use the dictionary.
    We learn the meaning of phrases and sentences according to the context in which we use them.

    In the LoMeLL we learn the meaning of the words of the language we are learning with their translation into our mother tongue or a known language. Already in adulthood the process of abstraction is not as active as in childhood.
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  5. Asexperia Valued Senior Member

    Essential Words in Spanish

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  7. O. W. Grant Registered Senior Member

    There is not language (per se). Working consciousness is (equivalent to) "language-ising".

    - - -

    Title : A Grammar of the English Tongue
    Author: Samuel Johnson

    /clear, simple and short/


    Pitman shorthand

    Pitman shorthand: consonants

    - - -

    R - ar (short vowel) / ray (vowel short (consonant))
    L - al (short vowel) / lay (vowel short (consonant))


    M - em (short vowel) / may (vowel short (consonant))
    N - en (short vowel) / nay (vowel short (consonat))


    W - ew (short vowel) / way (vowel short (consonant))
    Y - ey (short vowel) / yay (vowel short (consonat))

    ... (not now)

    = = =

    event - encoding in words (syntax (sentence));
    word - encoding in sound (spoken words), in letters (written words), in gestures ...
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2022
  8. O. W. Grant Registered Senior Member

    One needs input /event (visual, ...) - encoding in words (spoken, written)/

    Movie/series are good input, especially with subtitles.

    Language must not be foul.

    Due South, TV Series, 1994–1999 (especially the 1st two seasons)


    Death in Paradise, TV Series, 2011– (especially the 1st two seasons)


  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    That sounds like a terrible way to learn a language. To begin to speak a language, we need to know how words are put together to form coherent phrases and sentences in the language. It's no good just memorising a dictionary of words. After you've done that, you'll still have no idea how to say anything in the language (apart from isolated words).
    That ought to be the first stage. This method is supposed to be "based on logic", you say. What are your logical reasons for the order you suggest? Show me your reasoning.
    Part of the problem with your entire approach is that, really, all three steps should be done together, with priority given to steps 2 and 3 before 1.
    There's a reason for that. See above.
    sideshowbob likes this.
  10. Janus58 Valued Senior Member

    As to the need to include aspects of grammar in your lessons, some examples from Finnish.
    Sinä = you
    Olea = "to be" (are)
    But you wouldn't say Sinä olea for "you are" but rather Sinä olet, or more commonly, just olet
    Omistaa = have
    but "you have" is "sinulla on"

    Then there are the"cases" 15 of them.
    For example, koira/koiraa both mean dog, but in different cases. And the same for kissa/kissaa (cat)

    So while "Koira puree kissaa" means "A dog bites a cat", So does "Kissaa puree koira"
    Likewise "Kissa puree koiraa" and "Koiraa puree kissa" both mean "A cat bites a dog"

    Choice of order depends on what you want to emphasize. "Kissa puree Koira" is "A cat bites a dog", while "Koiraa puree kissa" is "A cat bites a dog"

    Then there is the fact that in Finnish, adjectives change their case along with the noun.
    Punainen omena for red apple, but Punaista omenat for red apples.

    Another classic example in Finnish is the two word phrase: Kuusi palaa
    Which can be translated as any of the following:
    The spruce is on fire
    The spruce returns
    #6 is on fire
    #6 returns
    Six of them are on fire
    Six of them return
    Your moon is on fire
    Your moon returns
    six pieces
    sideshowbob likes this.
  11. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Languages aren't exactly known for being logical: plural of duck is ducks, plural of goose is geese, plural of moose is moose.

    Why would a logical method be the way to learn them?
  12. Janus58 Valued Senior Member

    For example, plurals in Finnish:
    basic rule: add t Koira-dog, Koirat-dogs

    However, if the last syllable has K, P ,T KK, PP, or TT
    K or KK, remove 1 K
    P , P becomes a V
    T, T becomes a D
    PP remove a P
    TT remove a T
    ( before adding t)
    Takki(coat)- Takit(coats)
    Lupa(permission) - Luvat(permissions)
    Aiti (mom) - Aidit(moms)
    Noppa(die) - Nopat dice
    Kettu(fox) - Ketut(foxes)

    If the word ends in "nen", nen changes to "set"
    Nainen(women) - Naiset( women) - ( keep in mind that adjectives need to be in plural also) Punainen Perhonen ( red butterfly) becomes Punaiset perhoset ( red Butterflies)

    For words ending in "i", it depends if it is an Old or New word.
    For new words, the basic add t rules applies, while with old words the i is changed to e
    Paperi( paper) - Paperit(papers)

    Meri(sea)- Meret(seas)

    If the word ends in "e", you add another e (note, that unlike English, adding the e doesn't radically change the pronunciation. It just means you hold the sound a bit longer)
    Huone(room) - huoneet(rooms)

    Old words, ending in "si". The "si" become "de"
    Vuosi(year) - vuodet(years)

    Double rules can apply
    Siipi(wing) - Siivet(wings)

    It can get even more complicated when combined with other cases, like possessive.
    In English, we just move the apostrophe to change Cat's (singular possessive) to Cats' ( plural possessive.)
    While in Finnish it's Kissan(singular) and kissojen(plural) but Dog's is koiran, but Dogs' is koirien
    sideshowbob likes this.
  13. O. W. Grant Registered Senior Member


    Columbo, TV Series, 1971–2003


    Matlock, TV Series, 1986–1995


    Father Dowling Mysteries, TV Series, 1989–1991


    Diagnosis Murder, TV Series, 1993–2001


    Monk, TV Series, 2002–2009


    Ground Floor, TV Series, 2013–2015


    Evil Under the Sun, 1982


    = = =

    Gray zone

    Burn Notice, TV Series, 2007–2013


    = = =

    "No-no" zone

    My Name Is Earl, TV Series, 2005–2009


    = = =
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2022
  14. O. W. Grant Registered Senior Member

    ... and feelings. A lot of them.

    3rd rock from the sun
  15. O. W. Grant Registered Senior Member

    Piglet: We’ll be friends forever, won’t we, Pooh?
    Pooh: Even longer.
  16. O. W. Grant Registered Senior Member


    Dr. Dick Solomon - John Lithgow (the father)

    Leon - Ian Lithgow (the son), ... of course he's wrong
  17. O. W. Grant Registered Senior Member


    One does not have to be holier than the Pope.
    French - English with a french accent + a bit of french logic + errors + ... ;
    Germans - English with a german accent + a bit of german logic + errors + ... ;

    - - -

    /θ/ --> /t, f, s/
    /ð/ --> /d, v, z/

    diphthongs, triphthongs --> whatever

    - - -

    Listen very carefully, I shall say zis only once - Michelle Dubois Compilation - 'Allo 'Allo!


    Along came Polly - hippo story

    Claude : It's like zee story of zee heeppo.

    Reuben Feffer : I'm not familiar with that story.

    Claude : Zee heeppopotamoose, he is not born saying, "Cool beans. I am a heeppo." No way, Joesay. So he try to paint zee stripe on him to be like zee zebra, but he fool no one. Then he try to put zee spot on zee skin to be like the leopard, but everyboody know he is a heeppo. So, at certain point, he look himself in zee mirror and he just say, "Hey. I am a heeppopotamoose and zere is nothing I can do about it." As soon as he accepts zis, he live life happy. Happy as a heeppo. You understand zis, Luban?

    Reuben Feffer : [long pause] I'm gonna kill you!


    Casablanca - What watch?

    /subtitles button would be helpful/
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2022
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    And that was "offered" on the premise that "word salad" doesn't make any sense, whereas in culinary terms it makes a palatable dish of complimentary vegetables for consumption.

    And just to keep this off-topic comment from polluting what is actually a very serious scientific subject, I'll address your misunderstanding of my condensed version of what expresses very clearly what I wanted to convey in this thread.

    In my case the use of three complimentary words with specific meanings makes for a perfectly logical expression

    actionable = sufficient reason for action
    work = transfer of energy
    dynamic = stimulating force

    "Actionable work dynamic" ="sufficient reason for action by transfer of energy as a stimulating force"

    This is word salad?
    If so I believe it is quite palatable in context of the subject being discussed in that thread which is not psychology.
    Last edited: May 4, 2023
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    To illustrate my mode of logical analysis

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