The Mueller investigation.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Quantum Quack, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,816
    Yep. The GOP deciding that Manafort did in fact collude with a Russian intelligence officer, and that that collusion presented a "grave counterintelligence threat" to the US.

    And again it was from the GOP controlled Senate. Will be fun to see you try to blame Obama for this one.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,840
    ...just to add,
    It's strange that no one seems to realise that despite all the cover up and shite that been going down, Obama had very good reason to start an investigation at the time. Given the amount of corruption happening at the time and currently ongoing he had no choice but to order it for the national security interests.
    In other words it wasn't a political decision to order the Mueller investigation it was one that transcends that sort of nonsense. IMO
    You have the very nature of the founding democratic principles at stake and there was ample evidence to support an inquiry. If Obama took his role as protector of the constitution seriously he was obliged to act. He had no choice. The seriousness of the situation has been politicized, glossed over,underestimated and covered up by the subsequent administration.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. candy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    868

    Unfortunately the records obtained by Judicial Watch under FOIA indicate that in Jan 2017 Obama was involved in some of the discussions about surveillance of the Trump team. That is not good news.
     
    Vociferous likes this.
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,816
    Of course he was. Russia was actively interfering in a US election in order to help the Trump team win. Trump's campaign chairman was colluding with a Russian intelligence agent in a way that presented a "grave counterintelligence threat" to the US. Defending the US against that sort of thing falls directly under the responsibilities of the president.
     
    Write4U likes this.
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,188
    No, you keep misrepresenting the facts. The surveillance was on Russian activity inside the Trump team. That was the original warrant which needed to be extended.

    Mind, I don't condone lawbreaking by anyone, but don't you misrepresent an action by another who misrepresented a fact.
     
  9. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,761
    The Durham investigation just started, and the Mueller investigation took years. If you think this isn't the tip of the iceberg, you're fooling yourself.

    Really? You can't Google "FBI lawyer"? It's all over the news. But, I guess when you intentionally live under a rock...
    And you really shouldn't lecture others on their posting, when you can't manage to indent or quote your sources so they show when others quote you. As shown below, I always have to fix your post formatting for readability:

    Yep, only six people, and this one against Bannon is long after he was even on friendly terms with Trump. So I guess you'd blame Trump for anyone who he ever knew who then had charges pressed against them. That's a guilt by association fallacy. Not that I expect you to know better.

    But just for fun, let's see what happened to those charged by Mueller.
    Michael Cohen: At home
    At the start of May, Cohen was scheduled to go home to serve out the rest of his three-year sentence. Like thousands of federal prisoners, he would benefit from Attorney General Williams Barr’s mandate to release inmates in an effort to slow the spread of coronavirus. But when the time came for Cohen to be released, he wasn’t. His lawyer said no reason was given for the delay, but speculation pointed to the White House. Trump, who once called Cohen a “rat,” reportedly “seethed” about the prospect of Cohen’s early release.
    ...
    Michael Flynn: At home, charges dropped
    The Justice Department earlier this month dropped all charges against Michael Flynn after saying it couldn’t prove he had lied to the FBI.
    ...
    Paul Manafort: At home
    The former Trump campaign chairman served just a third of his 90-month prison sentence before concerns about the coronavirus and the 71-year-old’s deteriorating health resulted in his release last week.
    ...
    Rick Gates: At home
    Last December, Manafort’s onetime right-hand man received a sentence of 45 weekend days in jail after pleading guilty to financial crimes and lying to investigators. ...

    Last month, Gates asked if he could serve out the remainder of his weekend sentence at home, citing concerns over the pandemic and his wife’s breast cancer, which puts her at high risk for coronavirus complications. On April 21, a federal judge suspended his sentence indefinitely.
    ...
    Roger Stone: At home — for now
    On February 20, after Attorney General William Barr’s intervention in the sentencing process, Roger Stone was slapped with 40 months in prison. That was significantly less than the seven-to-nine years prosecutors recommended for his crimes of witness tampering and lying to Congress. But he still hasn’t started serving the time because of the coronavirus, which he said makes prison “essentially a death sentence” because of his underlying health conditions.

    After the attorney general saved him from a longer sentence earlier this year, Stone is now hoping for the intervention of two more powerful figures. In an interview last month, he said he’s “praying for a pardon,” but hasn’t directly asked Trump to step in.
    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/05/trump-campaign-convicts-where-are-they-now.html


    On September 7, 2018, Papadopoulos was sentenced to 14 days in prison, 12 months of supervised release, and 200 hours of community service;[75] he was also fined $9,500. He began serving his 14-day sentence on November 26, 2018, at FCI Oxford in Oxford, Wisconsin, and was released 12 days later on December 7, 2018.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Papadopoulos#Arrest_and_guilty_plea

    So everyone's at home, most of which for good, and one had the charges dropped.
    Wow, damning stuff. Especially compared to the FBI misusing it's power to go after political opponents, with the knowledge of the President.


    And? For one, the Senate intelligence committee is not the Mueller investigation. But that's neither here nor there.
    The report states that Manafort “was actively seeking a position on the Trump campaign” in January 2016....According to Trump associate Tom Barrack, Manafort’s willingness to work for free was central to his getting the job of chairman—and, the Senate writes, Manafort was hired without the campaign conducting any vetting, “including of his financial situation or vulnerability to foreign influence."
    https://www.lawfareblog.com/collusion-reading-diary-what-did-senate-intelligence-committee-find

    And the Senate intelligence committee found no more evidence of Trump colluding with anyone than the Mueller report did. So still bupkis.
    Who ever blamed Obama for anything Manafort did?
     
  10. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,761
    You don't find out what US citizens are on the other end of that surveillance without requests to unmask their names, which Obama knew about.
     
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,188
    So?
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,188
    So you mean that all these people were charged and convicted of crimes, sentenced and then Trump overriding the judicial system and setting them free. Very innocent, all of them.......

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  13. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,761
    Well, there's no accounting for your inability to read.
     
  14. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,761
    You got me. There's no arguing that.

    But then, that's no argument at all. Just you not caring if the rights of US citizens are violated.
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    15,188
    That has not been established at all. Don't accuse people without evidence of actual law-breaking.
    Usually that is established in a court of Law.

    Apparently you do not believe in the tenet that "People are innocent until proven guilty".
     
  16. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,761
    You do it to Trump all the time.

    Again, you do it to Trump all the time.
     
  17. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,793
    Write4U likes this.
  18. candy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    868

    Except the original warrant was based on misrepresentations to the court that is what the Clinesmith indictment is about.
    Having to admit that Obama was involved in this mess does not make me happy. I chose to believe that they lied to him as well as the court.
     
    Vociferous likes this.
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,626
    One cannot parody these people. It can't be done.
    As far as I can find, the public reports of Clinesmith's indictment all say that his misrepresentation - singular - was a key part of the third renewal of the warrant - not the original granting. https://www.courthousenews.com/fbi-lawyer-indicted-in-review-of-trump-russia-probe-plea-expected/
    None of them mention any "court".

    And none of them report that Clinesmith's misrepresentation to obtain the warrant has any bearing on the truth or falsity of the information obtained after that third renewal.
    Why did you ever think Obama was not involved? Very few other people did, especially those ("lefties") who thought from day one that his involvement was insufficiently vigorous considering the nature of the crimes involved.
     
    Write4U likes this.
  20. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,761
    Repeating lies doesn't validate them, although it can create the illusion of truth that dupes the simple-minded.


    Wow, you don't even know that FISA warrants are granted by by FISA courts?

    Doesn't have to, as it's fruit of the poisonous tree.

    Yes, we know "lefties" don't care about due process, law and order, or avoiding corruption or abuse of power....unless they are vilifying political opponents.
     
  21. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,793
    Why would you say something so dumb? They aren't lies, they are impeachable offenses, dummy. The fact that Trump believes he is above the law doesn't make any of the offense any less offensive.
     
  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,626
    The single misrepresentation at issue was included in the application for a third renewal of an already granted warrant.
    Renewals are signed off in camera by a single judge. That may be why the public reports I followed didn't mention any "court" proceedings - honest journalism would avoid false implications like that.
    The original warrant and the first renewals were apparently not poisoned - at least, the early and partial reports don't mention such poisoning.
    Meanwhile, the issue was the truth or falsity of the claims of collusion and double dealing and bribery and so forth by Trump's campaign and administration. As long as you are not trying to claim the discovered facts of Trump's collusions with Russia are somehow not accurate or factual or whatever, there's no complaint. If you are trying to deny or dismiss the reality of the Republican Party's (and of course Trump's) behavior, you need a better argument than "none of that is admissible in court".

    BTW: If you have forgotten already, recall that an impeachment proceeding by the House is not a criminal trial, and impeachment is not conviction of crime - there need be no crime at all. Trump can be impeached on the facts.
    I doubt you wanted the "unless" - wrong word.
    But we note your recognition that lefties - whoever you think they are - do care about corruption, law and order, and due process, when vilifying this Republican administration and Congress. That is why they are doing it.

    Next step: noting that vilifying the vile shouldn't take this much repetition of common realities, or run into such stubbornly blind opposition.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2020
  23. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,761
    They are lies, in the claim that they are either illegal or constitute impeachable offenses.

    In camera means "not in open court", not "not in court". The authority of a judge is only granted by their seat on a court.
    You really shouldn't need the media to spell that out for you. Maybe they aren't dumbing it down enough for ya.
    Obviously there was a lack of due diligence in the first warrant, and Durham's investigation is just getting started. And there's already this:
    Horowitz concluded that the FBI made 17 significant errors or omissions in its applications to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to surveil Page.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...aac5f2-1dda-11ea-b4c1-fd0d91b60d9e_story.html
    You know, aside from the fact that Page was never charged with any crime.
    I've actually hammered on that point repeatedly.
    No, that's the right word. Democrats are hypocrites who only care about violations of due process or law and order, corruption, or abuse of power when it's Republicans. They don't care how much Democrats are violating and abusing such.

    Maybe try reading without your partisan glasses on. Might help with your reading comprehension.
     

Share This Page