The Nature of Racism in America

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Bowser, Oct 19, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. wellwisher

    Messages:
    4,857

    Say your child went through a traumatic event; dog attack. Although it is OK and healthy to talk about it, eventually you need to move the child forward, so the healing process can begin. This may even require showing them nice dogs so they can be more objective to the fact that some dogs are bad and some are good. If you continue to fixate on the trauma, step 2 leading to healing can never begin.

    In the case of the blacks, slavery is something, no living black person, ever experienced directly. There is no direct connection between any modern black person and the darkness of slavery. Such people would need to be 160 plus years old. In this case, the analogy is like making your child afraid of Jack the Ripper from 140 years ago. Jack the Ripper did indeed kill many people, but he did not hurt your child, who nevertheless has nightmares about him. You as the parent, would not reinforce these nightmares unless there is an underlying motivation.

    I often wondered, what kind of emotional buzz does this give liberals? If someone did this to a child; make them scared of Jack the Ripper, what would be the purpose? Older siblings may do this for laughs. One explanation is to make one feel superior, since one is not afraid of the fantasy, that can cripple the child. The other possibility is to make the child dependent on you, for protection. One can look stronger and feel needed, by the fear being expressed, while being assured that Jack the Ripper is from the past, allowing one to talk tough. In this case, the child will never be allowed to get to start step 2, since this will change these dynamics and make the child more self reliant.

    The racism and white privilege that the left sees, has data, but it mostly comes from projection. Projection is when the unconscious mind tries to make unconscious things, conscious, so one can deal with them. What is unconscious in the mind of liberalism, the role they play in keeping the child afraid of Jack the Ripper, which they enforce with the mantra of white privilege. Those on the Right; Conservative, don't see this same projection, since they are working from the premise, that is it time for step 2 of healing. Jack the Ripper died long ago, he need not appear each election cycle.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. wellwisher

    Messages:
    4,857
    Let me expand on the example of the child, who was attacked by the dog. This is traumatic and may take time to overcome. Say we reinforce the fear of the child, by fixation on the trauma. The child remains afraid of dogs for way to long. Dogs can smell fear and read this in body language. This fear can cause otherwise good dogs to become more aggressive. It brings out the instinct of the wounded animal which is easy game. A good dog trainer knows that confidence is needed when dealing with dogs.

    Part of the healing process, for the child, is to learn to control their fear, by getting out ands interacting with good dog,s who will not respond in an aggressive way even if the child is afraid. As the child learns to trust and remain calm, then even the aggressive dogs leave them alone.

    If the liberals wish the blacks to remain dependent, so they can feel important and needed, reinforcing fear will help them trigger the environment, so it can reinforce their fear, until fear seems to be the preponderance of the data. Their leaders know this, but don't care.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. PhysBang Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,422
    Citation?
    WTF? What about all the racist propaganda of the slavery era? OK, you think that propaganda is just facts... What about the reaction of white people throughout the southern USA to black people and attempting to force them into subservient jobs? What about fiscal policy designed so that employers could pay as little as possible to black people? Again, you want to ignore all the parts of history that don't fit your narrative.

    Why don't you forget about the "projection" and focus on the data? Why don't you forget about the racists that were in the Democratic party and condemn, for once, the Southern Strategy of the Republican party?
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. PhysBang Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,422
    Indeed, there might not be the same history of Africans being denied access to technology is Europeans just traded instead of conquering.
     
  8. spidergoat Trump rejects intelligence Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    50,268
    Why isn't the best you can offer whatever it takes to fix a racist system? When you accuse the (perfectly accurate) narrative that racism is keeping them down of being the thing that keeps them down, you are both denying reality, and denying legitimacy to the black experience.
     
  9. Bowser Life is Fatal. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,666
    The narrative is keeping them down, not because it is an accurate story, but because it appeals to the idea that they are perpetual victims of racism. If there is a specific government mandate or law that is designed to further hold down any racial minority, please, share it here. Go on the streets of your community and ask people what they think of racism. My guess is that the answers you receive will only prove my point, nearly everyone agrees that racism sucks.

    I think the guy in the below video asks pretty much what many are asking...
     
  10. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    21,367
    Except that black people are victims of racism.

    Racism is entrenched. Perhaps as a white person, you have not experienced it. But people who experience it know what they are experiencing.

    So you'll excuse me for questioning why you are so set on demanding that what we experience is not racism.

    When you go to rent a house, and they deny you the chance to rent said house because of your ethnicity, that is racism and bigotry. When you apply for a job and because your name sounds 'black', you are denied even a look in for that position, that is racism. When you go to a store, the the store clerks refuse to serve you or ignore you because you are not white or fit into a specific stereotype that store clerk may have about people, that is racism. When you are driving a nice car and the police pull you over because they do not believe that someone of your ethnicity or who looks like you do can afford the expensive car, that type of stereotyping is racism. When banks deny minorities loans to buy houses, because of their ethnicity, that is racism. A vivid example of institutional racism within the banking sector in the US:

    The long outlawed practice of redlining (in which banks choke off lending to minority communities) recently re-emerged as a concern for federal bank regulators in New York and Connecticut. A recent settlement with the Justice dept and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau was the largest in the history of both agencies, topping $33 million in restitution for the practice from New Jersey’s largest saving bank. The bank had been accused of steering clear of minority neighborhoods and favoring white suburban borrowers in granting loans and mortgages, finding that of the approximately 1900 mortgages made in 2014 only 25 went to black applicants. The banks executives denied bias, and the settlement came with adjustments to the banks business practices. This followed other successful efforts by the federal, state and city officials in 2014 to expand lending programs directed at minorities, and in some cases to force banks to pay penalties for patterns of redlining in Providence, R.I.; St. Louis, Mo.; Milwaukee, Mn.; Buffalo and Rochester, N.Y. The Justice dept also has more active redlining investigations underway,[22] officials noting to reporters recently, "redlining is not a thing of the past". It has evolved into a P.C. version, where bankers do not talk about denying loans to blacks openly. The justice dept officials noted that some banks have quietly institutionalized bias in their operations. They have moved their operations out of minority communities entirely, conversely while others have moved in to fill the void and compete for clients. Such management decisions are not the stated intent, it is left unspoken so that even the bank’s other customers are unaware that it is occurring. The effect on minority communities can be profound as home ownership, a prime source of neighborhood stability and economic mobility, can affect its vulnerability to blight and disrepair. In the 1960s and 1970s laws were passed banning the practice; its return is far less overt, and while the vast majority of banks operate legally, the practice appears to be more widespread as the investigation revealed a vast disparity in loans approved for blacks vs whites in similar situations.[23]

    Studies in major cities such as Los Angeles and Baltimore show that communities of color have lower levels of access to parks and green space.[24][25] Parks are considered an environmental amenity and have social, economic, and health benefits. The public spaces allow for social interactions, increase likelihood of daily exercise in the community and improve mental health. They can also reduce the urban heat island effect, provide wildlife habitat, control floods, and reduce certain air pollutants. Minority groups have less access to decision-making processes that determine the distribution of parks.

    This is what people of colour and people of non-white ethnicity face on a day to day basis throughout their lives.

    Racism is entrenched in society. Our attempting to speak out about it and being faced by the likes of you, who demand that it does not exist and your wish to silence our voices because it does not fit into your personal narrative, that is racism. When you set standards and goals for other minorities to achieve, as though you have somehow set the gold standard, while ignoring that minorities have to go through hoops to even be able to attempt to get loans, get a good education, find somewhere to live despite the blatant racism that exists that puts obstacles in our way to obtain these goals, that is racism.

    You mentioned the woman you worked for, declaring she worked hard as though this was evidence that racism does not exist. You ignore the fact that she achieved business success, despite the racism that exists. And that is key to what you keep ignoring in your demands that racism does not exist.. People who succeed do so despite the racism they face. Ask your employer how difficult it was for her, as a black woman, to succeed and whether she faced any racism along the way. I am 100% sure the answer will shock you.

    Do you understand that black business owners are having to hide any trace of their ethnicity to remain afloat?

    In growing his patio-installation company, Duane Draughon erased all clues to the public that he, a black man, owned the business.

    That meant no photos of him or his family on his website; giving potential customers the impression the business was part of a franchise and that he was a project manager, not the owner; and recruiting a white insurance company representative to conduct job interviews in assembling his white sales team.

    The covert tactics helped him to bill more than $6 million over nine years to a white clientele he perceived as racist, as he often encountered potential customers who slammed doors in his face or refused to allow him in their homes, he said.

    "I never said I wasn't the owner. If asked, I would admit it. But I always said I was either the project manager or a designer," he said.

    Draughon is among entrepreneurs who feel compelled to conceal the fact that their businesses are black-owned for fear they will lose patronage — either to misperceptions that the products or services are only for blacks, or to racial biases on the part of potential users.

    Some entrepreneurs leave their photos out of websites and marketing materials. Others give the impression that their white employees actually own the operations.

    Do you understand the reason they are forced to do this is because of the systemic racism that exists in society?

    According to a 2014 Nielsen report on African-American buying habits, 55 percent of blacks with household incomes of at least $50,000 said they would buy or support a product if it was sold or supported by a person of color or minority-owned business. Only 20 percent of non-African Americans in the same income bracket felt the same. The report did not specify the answers of the remaining respondents.

    When a doctor on a plane is dismissed and mocked by an air hostess after a medical emergency on board the flight saw them call for doctors on board to come forward, because she is black, when she is required to show her accreditation because they did not believe a black woman could be a doctor, while a white doctor who also responded to the call was not required to show said accreditation because he was white, that is racism.

    Just because you do not see it, does not mean it does not exist.

    Just because you do not experience it, does not mean that others also do not experience it.

    Your demand that our speaking out about this, or acknowledging this exists and happens is a desire to be a perpetual victim of racism is racist in and of itself.

    During this election cycle, one has been blatantly happening around your country, imposed by State Governments in a bid to suppress minority and in particular, the African American vote.
     
  11. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,504
    Are all liberals racists?
     
  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    33,581
    Depends on who you ask. To another liberal, liberals are human and therefore we carry some prejudices. To a conservative, nigger-lovin' liberals are the heart of racism, bitch, and, oh, yeah, misogyny too.

    In other words, it's subjective, and in our political culture where the rules allow one side of our generally dualistic political disputes to pretty much make it all up as we go, there are no real answers, which in turn means the press is properly doing its job because anything more useful than useless is unfair to conservatives.
     
  13. spidergoat Trump rejects intelligence Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    50,268
    I guess you didn't read the link I provided. We live in a racist system where pretty much everyone says they hate racism.

    The new threat: 'Racism without racists'
     
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,483
    You have got to be kidding.

    My father, in his youth, had several conversations with an elderly man who had been branded (the letter "H" burned into the skin of his back) as a slave. Actual black people are of course often immersed in the family story, and the neighbors's stories, and so forth. People are most definitely and directly affected by their ancestors's fates, and forced black labor of various kinds (mediated by cooperative police usually) was common in the US until the late 1960s.

    That's not even mentioning the direct effects of having one's parents and grandparents grow up landless and in poverty - for example among many: very few black people grew up on family farms started by homesteading ancestors, as the 40 acres and a mule route to prosperity was not open to black people.

    There were teenage boys among the perpetrators of various beatings and lynchings and severe abuses of black people during the civil rights violence of the 1960s - they are currently grown men in positions of power.
    If you can't see the systemic racism in such well known setups as New York City's stop and frisk laws, or the police department reactions to the various famous shootings in the recent news (http://www.snopes.com/info/news/iamdarrenwilson.asp ) you are never going to understand what's going on the world around you. That's pretty basic and frankly blatant stuff.
    I don't know. But you are. And every white male Trump voter is. So let's start there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  15. wellwisher

    Messages:
    4,857
    If you had a child who was afraid of dogs, they will read danger into every dog they encounter. They can even justify their fear by doing a goggle search of dog attacks. They can find at least one bite for every breed and find picture of nasty wounds.

    I have never done any of this things that your data suggests. If you falsely accuse me, what am I supposed to do? Do I accept the blame for something, I did not do, based on a stereotype so I can make peace with you, or do I defend myself, as an individual? I am not spokesman for all people of a given color. But I am speak for myself.

    In therapy, the first step is to talk about the trauma, which we are doing. The next step is to gain a more realistic perception by testing reality. There are bad people, but there are also good people. Dwelling on only the bad people and events, is like a scientists plotting experimental data that satisfy the needs of his theory. Not looking at the good, is like leaving out the data points that don't fit his curve. The final curve will appear to prove your theory, but it will not be real.

    In my city, there has been a wave of legal immigrants from western Africa. These black people don't see America in the same light as American blacks. They tend to be well educated, strong families and high media income, with many business owners. They don't understand the POV of the American blacks, and can't understand why they have not moved on. The western African immigrants, project the excitement in the America dream, which translates into a happier and more productive life. They do not get along as well with the American blacks, because they don't have the same mindset of despair and blame.

    If the theory of a war between black and white was true, it would not take long for the Western African immigrant to feel the heat. But since they continue to relate as neighbors, for at least a decade, they still see things differently. They see good people since they are people of character.
     
    Bowser likes this.
  16. PhysBang Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,422
    And yet you ask us again and again to forget that the Republican party actively welcomed racists into the party and used them as a voting strategy. Don't you think that is relevant information? Don't you think that courting the votes of racists helped foster racism in some way? Don't you think that, by trying to hide these facts, you are helping racism in some way?

    I think that you do know that your actions hurt black people and other minorities. I think you don't care.
    They do feel the heat: they experience racism. You just turn your back on this.

    http://qz.com/198512/america-still-...ties-for-black-immigrants-but-not-their-kids/
     
  17. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,504
    Prove it!
     
  18. sculptor Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,504
    A) don't take it seriously
    B) know that this is common among HRC supporters.
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

    Messages:
    33,581
    Sculptor ♥ HRC

    You're fucking sick.

    No, seriously, people need to understand that this thoroughly unhealthy obsession is a sickness.

    Seriously, Sculptor: Seek help.

    Think about how important Hillary Rodham Clinton is to you. Think of how much you have raised her to an idyll. Think of how much you admire her, and how jealous you have to be that you can't have a conversation that isn't about Hillary, Hillary, Hillary.

    This is why people laugh.

    This is why people think Donald Trump supporters are farcical, weak people.

    This is why people think the Cult of the Anti-Hillary is farcical.

    Seriously, dude, in the face of deliberate dehumanization of people of color, all you can think of is Hillary.

    It's sickness.
     
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,664
    Neither do you. Your characterization of "American blacks" as uneducated, weak families and low income is pretty much the definition of racism.

    Shall we define you the same as Trump just because you are in his general basket of people? How many women have you assaulted? And how many women have accused you of rape?
    I have an Iranian neigbor. The neigbor next to him is Israeli. If I were as ignorant as yourself, I might say "if there are problems between Israel and Iran in the Middle East, my neighbors would be feeling the heat. But since they continue to relate as neighbors, any claims about Middle Eastern problems are lies."
     
  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,664
    There is pretty good proof in Wellwisher's post - right above yours.
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,664
    Recently overheard on FOX News:

    "Good news in Ohio! The white share of the vote is up 3 points from 4 years ago, the black share of the vote is down 7." (https://twitter.com/hashtag/wow?src=hash)

    That's the environment that blacks are living in now. So if you tell them "dude, there's no racism, get over it" you're going to be (rightly) laughed at.
     
  23. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    21,367
    You just read and responded a post from your fellow Trump supporter and instead of focusing or even responding to your fellow Trump supporter comparing black people to dogs, you instead decided to whine about people who support Clinton:

    Something something about priorities goes here.

    Frankly, your racism could not be more obvious at this point if you farted on it and then lit it up with a naked flame, while dressing it in neon coloured clothing and set that on fire too.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page