The of begining life on earth

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by yaracuy, Feb 24, 2011.

  1. SciWriter Valued Senior Member

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  3. yaracuy Banned Banned

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    What ever my limited chemical knowledge is . It is hard to think to exclude some programmed design as we see life after how man got evolved

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  5. ULTRA Realistically Surreal Registered Senior Member

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    If humans are the pinnacle of Darwinian Evolution we are too complicated for the study you suggest. We have over 40,000 active genes and 3 bn or so differentiated cells. We are the ultimate in analogue bio-physical biochemical beings. Horrendously complicated, no wonder we go wrong from time to time. Simple cells with 5000 active genes asr far easier to study and manipulate. Some say nature could never have invented something as good as us, but natural selection is real, and it happens every minute of every day. It never stands still an instant. 3.5bn years of development, and we still have a toxic waste-pipe running through a recreational zone. Some improvements are still evidently needed!
     
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  7. ULTRA Realistically Surreal Registered Senior Member

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  8. yaracuy Banned Banned

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  9. ULTRA Realistically Surreal Registered Senior Member

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    Sorry but I don't understand the question..
     
  10. yaracuy Banned Banned

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    Would you call Petroleum a soup of organic and inorganic chemicals ? If yes, then why no life is formed in the petroleum soup , it is churning it self for millions of years.
    That is what makes me think . There must have been a creator for the beginning of life on the earth >

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  11. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    Petroleum was formed in the Carboniferous Era, about 350 to 300MYA. The Earth was considerably cooler then than it was when life first arose.
     
  12. yaracuy Banned Banned

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    Thank you . I am aware of how old petroleum is and you are helping me the period.
    The earth is about 4.5 BYA the early living organism found is about 3.7 BYA
    the difference is 800 MYA to produce life from a hot molten surface ( crust )
    Let say after the crust cooled off, we had inorganic chemistry after it cools of some more we probably obtained some organic compounds , then the environment perhaps would be suitable to form some nucleic acids , then we need a period to produce ( assemble ) some RNA DNA then we need a period for making a system to make prodeines . OK
    Now I say Petroleum or pre petroleum have all components to make life sense petroleum is a product of living organism.
    Let say give it 200 MYA to produce life from components in petroleum , but Have we obtained life from it as it said from primordial soup.? I do't think so . Apparently some thing is missing ... The creator of life .

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  13. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Wrong. Life already exists almost anywhere it is possible to exist on Earth, even deep underground. This prevents the formation of new life, which has not had time to develop any evolutionary defenses. In any case, oil is not a suitable medium for life, as there is no oxygen down there.
     
  14. yaracuy Banned Banned

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    How can you be so positive , by saying, " wrong"
    Hi , I am sure you heard about anaerobic life ( sewage plants or septic tanks )
    You are on this tread from the beginning. You know I am looking how life started from raw elements .
    My point with the petroleum is an example , that here we are beyond Inorganic chemistry.
    But let me add what it seems as I am thinking most things in chemical in a natural way is to increase entropy and so to build life is to reduce entropy which means you have to do work to put it together ,
    when you reach certain level , the when we die entropy increase of those chemicals

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  15. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    OK, you are correct that life can exist without oxygen. I suppose it's a good question whether life exists in oil deposits, but according to proposed theories of abiogenesis, life didn't start in oil deposits, it started in hydrothermal vents. Oil seems to be toxic to life.
     
  16. yaracuy Banned Banned

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    Hydrothermal ; were do you get the nucleic acid to push it through the path
    of the vent ? does the vent have RNA inside , so were do you get the RNA.

    Theory.... There are many about early life , That is why I am posting . I would like some reasonable challenge to my question so I can learn other view. So ear on this forum or in others I get is divination into evolution . I don't have problem with evolution , my problem is start.
    I understand Petroleum is toxic , but once it was not toxic it had life.
    r
     
  17. Boris2 Valued Senior Member

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  18. yaracuy Banned Banned

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    It really makes more sense that life come from an other planet with specie more intelligent ( advanced ) then we are , but the proposal of primordial soup in my opinion is a fantasy proposed by physicist or biologist , and i doubt it will be proposed by chemists.

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  19. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    No it doesn’t. There are proposed mechanisms, with varying levels of observational data and experimental support, for how life might have arisen on Earth. There is no need to invoke panspermia, although that remains as a potentially viable alternative.


    I think the primordial soup idea came from JBS Haldane (a geneticist/biologist), although it is sometimes credited as far back as Darwin. Regardless, the primordial soup idea (ie. pools of water on the surface of the planet) has long since been replaced by hypotheses that state that abiogenesis occurred deep in the Earth’s crust (or at least as deep as the ocean floor at hydrothermal vents).

    So, you are using what we call a “strawman” argument. You are claiming to debunk something that isn’t current dogma in the first place.


    Wrong again. As an example, Sidney Altman and Thomas Cech won the 1989 Nobel Prize for Chemistry for their work on catalytic RNAs. These molecules pay fundamental roles in theories of abiogenesis. Chemists and biochemists feature prominently in such research.
     
  20. Boris2 Valued Senior Member

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    why does it make more sense? it just removes the solution one degree and offers no answer. may as well invoke a creator.
     
  21. Kennyc Registered Senior Member

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    Just moves the origin back one step. If not here, then where?
     
  22. yaracuy Banned Banned

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    Sense I am not familiar with that work , I will have look into it and to see what was their objective in their work, As you know there are many people who take someones work and draw their own conclusion
    I just noticed one earlier in the post.

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  23. yaracuy Banned Banned

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    I agree we don't have a real answer , but it is good to put our opinion on the table to sort them out , then select a more reasonal.

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