The possibility of making consciousness!

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Beaconator, May 28, 2021.

  1. C C Consular Corps - "the backbone of diplomacy" Valued Senior Member

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    2,260
    Aside from chlorocruorin, there's a remote possibility of Spock's blood being grounded in vanadium chromagen. Which can potentially appear greenish when it's low-oxygenated. But despite the presence, there's actually little to no support for vanabins being used for oxygen transport in ascidian and tunicate circulatory systems. Thus, even less applicable to Vulcans or half-Vulcans (the latter an impossible combination without the intervention of bio-engineering substituting for a conventional fertilization process).
     
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  3. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    6,670
    excellent ground work for a conspiracy theory
    alien blue bloods ruling class lived on earth for centurys controlling human civilization
    this is why royal and leader groups are called blue-blood because originally they were all aliens with blue blood

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  5. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    6,670
    iron
    copper
    & hematology

    big problem with the usa medical system is all actions are profit driven

    if a doctor suggests a test & the patient cant afford it
    ...
    then what ?

    in theory a doctor sends a patient FOR a test
    the doctor does not ask the patient if they feel like a test

    THAT is a complete break down of the entire system of medicine

    corrupted entirely by profit

    usa propaganda global press broad casts
    "usa does not negotiate with terrorist, does not pay ransoms does not negotiate"
    "no dead or living soldiers will be left over seas"

    but all medical is money 1st

    so vaccines and drugs to save babies lifes are ridiculously expensive

    ...
    because why
    how much does that person worth
    money ?
    i dont understand the question when you dont tell me what i want

    ahhh morals
    you mean religion or politics ?

    good at business bad at people ... if that were so then no such thing as trade war or trade deficit

    no one needs copper
    or do they ?

    let me run 10k worth of medical tests on you
    unles you cant get approved for the lending to pay for it
    in which case
    lets just wait and see what happens, here take some partly funded low cost pain killers instead

    patient choice is consciousness
    unles they cant afford to pay
    in which case its just the cold hard world of how politics cant be controlled
    and why free market capitalism needs more power

    ... "because" [points at slum dog baby eating poo]
    https://highfivedad.com/how-to-make-money-as-a-kid/

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2021
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  7. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    16,025
    What I posted is " copper (used to make red blood cells)".

    Read here:
    "Copper helps to form hemoglobin. It’s needed to make red blood cells."
    https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/ency...rm hemoglobin,absorb iron from the intestines.

    So
    1] Yes, it is what I posted, and
    2] I said nothing about "what makes red blood cells red"; I said "it helps make red blood cells".

    Correction still unwarranted. Digression also unwarranted.
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,789
    I believe it is very much related to neuron and brain function, both good and bad. Copper toxicity is not to be trifled with.

    From your link:
    https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?contenttypeid=19&contentid=copper#
     
  9. Beaconator Valued Senior Member

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    1,224
    Are red blood cells necessary for consciousness? I see no evidence for that. If they are vital to the brain I would believe you
     
  10. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,025
    Whether or not you have anything to add, your erroneous attempt at correcting statements that were already correct is simply argumentative and destructive to the thread.
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,025
    They definitely are.

    No red blood cells going to the brain = no oxygen going to the brain = brain death = no consciousness.
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,789
    That completely depends on the species. Not all blood cells are red
    For a human, blue, green, or violet blood cells would be very unhealthy. OTOH for an octopus red blood cells would be very unhealthy, and octopus and squid also possess conscious brains.

    That is why we have terms to identify red blood, haemoglobin or iron based red blood cells, using iron atoms as the oxygen carrier and blue blood hemocyanin or copper based blue blood cells, using copper as the oxygen carrier.. All you do is confuse the issue by generalizing.

    Not all blood is red and to identify blood as always consisting of red blood cells is incorrect.

    In red blood copper is a trace element and has no utility as an oxygen carrier. In blue blood iron is a trace element and has no utility as an oxygen carrier. Both are specifically identified as causal to the color of the blood cells.

    If I said zinc is used to make red blood cells I'd be wrong.

    Trace metals and hemoglobin metabolism

    A D Garnica

    Abstract
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7018368/

    When you talk about blood, just say blood. To always identify blood as red blood is wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2021
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Good thing nobody said that then!

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    Last edited: Jun 5, 2021
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    OP's first conjecture: "No conscious animal uses any element above iron to sustain their being."

    This is false. All we need do is provide a single example of any conscious animal that uses any element above iron and the statement is falsified. (In fact, there are many.)

    Humans use copper. In fact, they use it to help make red blood cells. So conjecture 1 is false.

    Second conjecture: "Are red blood cells necessary for consciousness?"

    There are plenty of animals that have other means of getting oxygen to their brains, (though there is some debate to be had as what whether they qualify as conscious). But, inasmuch as we are referring to creatures that have red blood cells, the answer is yes. Creatures with red blood cells need them because that's how oxygen is transported to the brain.
     
  15. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    10,798
    Yes this is just Write4U's brain damage showing again.

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    Being Dutch, he mistranslated your English, thinking "makes red blood cells" = "makes blood cells red" and then, when his error is pointed out, he argues all kinds of shit rather than admitting he misconstrued what you said. He's a jerk.
     
  16. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,789
    Copper does not make red blood cells. Zinc, cobalt, manganese, cadmium or lead do not make red blood cells .

    Only iron makes red blood cells when iron atoms carry the oxygen.

    And you are just showing your intractable desire to utter ad hominem once again....

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  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    16,025
    Good thing nobody said that either. Fer cryin' out loud - are you just trolling??

    As stated, this is not true. For someone who tries to correct others' posts so much, you are pretty sloppy with your own.

    Look, nobody's coming looking for you. You're your own worst enemy.
    You are so quick to try to find errors in others, you don't bother to read what's written.

    You've wasted a half dozen posts 1] claiming to correct things that, in fact, didn't need correcting at all, and 2] claiming you're correcting something when in fact, you're simply adding information without negating the thing you claim to be correcting.

    This is trivially obvious to everyone reading; it damages your credibility and makes you look like a fool. Every time you complain about ad homs, remember: you don't have to act like this; you choose to.

    Read twice, think hard, post once.
     
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  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    17,789
    No, I was ready to drop it. I had made my point.

    Then exchemist had come in and gratuitously offer another one of his ad hominems. He is the troll, not I.

    It would have been gracious of you if you had acknowledged the distinction between what causes red blood and what causes other blood colors. I provided sufficient evidence that copper is not responsible for the production of red blood cells. I have not accused you of being stupid or mentally deranged.

    But I am beginning to suspect exchemist is.
     
  19. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,025
    You made it wrong. I pointed that out. You doubled down on being wrong.
    You are not the injured party here; you are the instigator.

    Then stop acting like it.

    It would have been gracious of you to not try to correct me (since I was correct) with something that was incorrect. You are the instigator here.

    Google hit #1: "Copper helps to form hemoglobin. It's needed to make red blood cells."

    Wiki:
    "Copper is involved in the formation of red blood cells..."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_in_health

    You are wrong.
    Still.
    Again.



    This is why people are questioning your faculties. You post wrong stuff, and when it's pointed out, you double down with more wrong stuff. At some point, with a long history of this happening over and over again, we justifiably start to wonder if there's a root cause. It's exhausting. And it's damaging to the quality of the forum.


    This is done. Continuation of this damaging sidetrack will be reported for trolling.
     
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,163
    Copper is one of many things needed to make red blood cells.

    "Copper is a soft, reddish-orange metal. It’s an essential trace element. It’s being studied to see how it helps the body. Copper may treat some types of anemia that don’t respond to iron. Wilson disease and Menkes (kinky hair) disease are related to not being able to use copper.

    Copper levels are highest in the liver and brain. Copper is also found in the kidneys, pancreas, and heart. Estrogen increases the amount of copper in your body. For this reason, copper levels are highest during pregnancy.

    Copper helps to form hemoglobin. It’s needed to make red blood cells. It’s also needed for the energy production cycle of cells."

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/the-possibility-of-making-consciousness.164398/page-2
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,789
    Copper is needed for making blood cells. It is not responsible for the redness of hemoglobin.
    Iron is needed for making blood cells. It is not responsible for the blueness of hemocyanin.

    In Animal Kingdom, Blood Comes in a Rainbow of Colors
    Blood isn't always red—evolution has given rise to a variety of hues.
    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...od-antarctica-octopus-animals-science-colors#

    Why are we wasting time on this? The way this was originally posited could have been misleading to a person not familiar with what makes hemoglobin red or what makes hemocyanin blue. I merely brought this to the attention of other readers.
     
  22. Beaconator Valued Senior Member

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    1,224
    Glad to know fireflys are the only living creature that actually need phosphorus.
     
  23. Beaconator Valued Senior Member

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    1,224
    Fresh tendrils. Soundgarden
     

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