the real collusion investigation.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Beaconator, May 15, 2019.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    OK. Fortunately you don't have to "run your house like the military." I bet you like the fact that they are out there, though, protecting you - even though they are evil, money grabbing socialists. In fact, we are about to honor the socialist soldiers who gave their lives to protect the USA next Monday.

    Do you drive on public roads?
     
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  3. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    It seems worth adding that our neighbor's socialist-slavery thesis runs into problems according to the point of the slaves themselves, the vocale instrumenti, as they were once upon a time. If I had a hammer, socialism would be what gave me the hammer in order to use; that is, socialism would be what grants me access to an item of property, i.e., distributes the resource to me. If I wrap the handle to improve the tool's utility, that's maintenance, not socialism. And so it was if the Athenian clothed his talking tool. If the state sends the material to wrap the tools, that would be an element of socialism.
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Which is always what happens without oversight by several other branches of government. And that's the beauty of out form of government. Except this time we have someone in office who wants to corrupt even that check and balance against government abuse.
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Breaking news: Tax payers are going to have to bail out the farmers due to the new tariffs placed by Trump.

    This guy is running the nation into the ground, just like all of is other "business" enterprises.
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Time for another tax cut and more money for the wall! And of course we'll need to send another $100 million to Trump's country club. (Hey, he'll be gone before we go bankrupt.)
     
  9. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    That’s a bit far fetched lol
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Well, a few years ago a claim that a big chunk of Trump's campaign and administration would be convicted criminals would have seemed far fetched, too.

    Saw this today:
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    WASHINGTON — The United States and China are digging in for a prolonged trade war, with the Trump administration unveiling a new $16 billion bailout for farmers hurt by Beijing’s tariffs on Thursday . . .

    On Thursday, the administration took another step to help insulate farmers, with the Agriculture Department saying it would provide up to $16 billion in aid to farmers hurt by Chinese trade retaliation. The amount “is in line with the estimated impacts of unjustified retaliatory tariffs on U.S. agricultural goods and other trade disruptions,” the department said in a statement.

    The new program will make $14.5 billion in direct payments to producers, channeled through the Commodity Credit Corporation, a program that helps shore up American farmers by buying their crops. The payments will be made to agricultural producers for a wide range of products, from soybeans and cotton to chickpeas and cherries, in up to three tranches, beginning in late July or early August.

    The government will also implement a $1.4 billion program to purchase surplus commodities affected by the trade war and distribute them to food banks, schools and other programs for the poor, as well as put another $100 million toward developing new export markets for American farmers.
    ===========

    So the government is going to spend $14.5 billion on buying crops and throwing them out - and then another $1.4 billion for crops that will actually be used by someone. I know, it's only $16 billion - but $16 billion here, $16 billion there, and soon you are talking real money.
     
  11. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Hopefully, this isn't going to bail out inhumane factory farms. (dairy, etc)

    There's a part of me that doesn't like knowing all of this information, because it just makes me upset. I know that it's important to be informed, but ...
     
  12. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    It's all going to factory farms. The aid is targeted to farms that are hurt the most by the tariffs - which are the mega farms that grow a few crops by the megaton for export. The smaller local farms don't export much, so won't get much aid.

    Also, since he announced the aid before most farmers have planted summer crops, all those factory farms are going to switch to crops that get them the highest amounts of aid (i.e. soybeans) rather than crops that can be easily stored (like wheat or barley.) So look for millions of tons of soybeans to be rotting in storage this fall.
     
  13. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Greeeat. :/

    This is really disgusting, on a number of levels. I'm very much against factory farming - especially dairy factory farming. It's barbaric how factory animals are treated. Some never see the light of day or ever step outside onto actual grass. They are born and live the duration of their lives, in a literal factory. And due to the abuses, many of these animals are diseased so that is getting passed to the consumer. I've watched quite a few ''under cover'' documentaries, and it has converted me to buying from local humane farmers.

    Sorry for that tangent.
     
  14. Beaconator Registered Senior Member

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    Finally a statement from someone with a brain. All ideals are open to corruption. The key is identifying them when they happen.
     
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    A big chunk of the bailout money so far went to a very large international meatpacking operation based in Brazil - which has significant operations in the US, none of them particularly "humane", and apparently none of them actually losing money or in danger of going under. Also, the owners and managers are under investigation for various crimes in their home country. So typical Trump allies, in a sense. But not American farmers.
    https://www.motherjones.com/food/20...t-for-farmers-a-brazilian-owned-meat-company/

    Most of the rest went to large corporate agribusinesses of one kind and another - some of them no doubt actual farms, with farmers who own them working them.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  16. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    JBS sounds like the Walmart of hog farming

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    , and no they're not hurting, according to the sources in the article. I honestly don't understand this. What do you make of it? Meanwhile...China is shifting its meat purchasing to Brazil to ''punish'' the US, according to the article. If it weren't so sad, it'd be a comedy.
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    It's normal Republican governance since Reagan.

    International corporate capitalists are almost all on the same team, basically, and in the US that team is represented politically by the Republican Party (some Dems cooperate, but it's been an increasingly rigid partisan divide since Nixon). The corporate lobbyists and agribusiness executives and so forth who actually draw up this legislation, or at least make sure their Congresscritter writes it to order, have a lot more interests and preferences in common with their friends and fellow businessmen in the executive suites of large Brazilian agribusiness concerns than they do with the average American citizen.

    The interesting aspect, if you're interested, is how the US media and publicized public describes this kind of behavior. If you follow the matter - or anything connected with one of the atrocities and crimes committed by this particular Federal administration - anywhere in the media, note how often you hear the words "Washington" and "Feds" and "Government" and "politicians" and so forth - especially: "both sides" or "both Parties" or some equivalent "both".

    When it's everybody's fault it's nobody's fault - and having it be nobody's fault is a keen desire of the perpetrators.
     
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  18. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I was chatting with one of my superrrr Republican friends yesterday about his take on all of this, and he replied “We are in a state of emergency and Trump is the first president to do something about it.”

    It’s interesting (sad?) how divided the nation is on Trump.
     
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Since 1994, at the very latest. More like 1980, actually. Go back into the media coverage of the buildup to the Iraq War, and the War itself - you'll see the same thing. "We are in a state of emergency, and W is the first President to do something about it" - you can find that line almost word for word, in a netsearch of late 2002/early 2003.

    It's not actually a "division" - it's a separation of one large and organized faction from the rest of the country. American is experiencing another fascist movement.

    America has been harboring the political faction that started the Civil War since before the Civil War. They were rolled up into one Party by the efforts of Nixon, Reagan, Gingrich, Limbaugh, W, dozens of Christian ministers in pulpits and priests in churches and radio hosts on the ever more monopolized airwaves, between 1980 and 2000 - essentially successful as of 1994. Since then, the dismantling of the New Deal and restoration of the Confederacy has been proceeding, in fits and starts but always gaining ground.
     
  20. Neddy Bate Valued Senior Member

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    Just a reminder that the dollar sign still causes formatting problems on this forum.

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    I was going to quote the post, but it appeared normal and readable in my preview window. That was the only way I could read it, so that is a useful workaround. That is a good thing to know, if one ever needs it.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Isolate dollar signs in formatting tags. Italics is easiest. That way, if beer is $10, and chips and cheese are $5, we're lookin' good for the game, tonight.

    I know, it's an annoying waste of characters, but it works.
     
  22. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Yep. There's an "emergency" at the border and so Trump can do whatever he wants. Convenient, that.

    I wonder how the GOP will take it when a democratic president declares a climate emergency and bans coal power plants?
     
  23. Beaconator Registered Senior Member

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    729
    Nope your wrong! He is still being fought at the wall. There is a city well known for its corruption that stallwarted a private company from building a wall. So even private companies funded by private individuals are getting hung up by corrupt mayors younger than I am.

    115,000,000,000 dollars wasted on illegal immigrants.
     

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