The Regularities in the Solar System

Discussion in 'The Cesspool' started by nebel, Jan 25, 2015.

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  1. nebel

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    ever since David Gregory 1659-1707, who pointed out the doubling of the orbit diameters with distance,
    Titius/Bode 'law' and it's Mercury- based sequence, The orbits of the solar systems have fascinated us, as they should. Here is a different take:
    The orbits resembles chromosomes, shoe laces, in that the ends are strengthened by doubling.
    The earth orbit diameter is ~ 1000 light seconds and the Mars-Venus, Venus- Earth diameter differences are ~ 300 light seconds. or .3 AU. ( two same distances twice, and then doubling from earth outward).
    In the outer reaches, that distance is doubled 4 times; the Saturn to Uranus diameters increase by ~9.6 AU ~32 times the .3 AU inner value, Uranus -Neptune ~9.6; Neptune to Pluto ~ 9.6; - 3 consecutive 160 light minutes orbit diameter difference at the perimeter. so, doubling only in the middle. and
    .3 AU corresponds to the 5 min Solar pulsation if converted with 'c' to wave length. and
    when considering orbital velocities, from Venus to Jupiter, each speed increases~ 5.5 km/sec. 4 equal increases.
    *~ meaning within 2%
     
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  3. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    Ratios and relationships that are not reflected in other systems we have observed, so what is your point?
     
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  5. nebel

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    one point is, that all stars have distinct resonances, Eigenschwingungen that should show a correlation, if not causation in their disks, as does the Sun, and possibly Kepler 444* and company. The point is too, to consider new factors in the stability of the Solar system, if it would turn out to be unique, which I doubt.

    Planetary orbit diameters seen as part of a Chladni plate, agitated by their powerful center vibrators, The whole balanced to be stable over billions of years.
    * Keppler 444' vibrations detected and now published.
     
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  7. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    I'm not familiar with this idea of natural oscillations (which seems to be the translation of Eigenschwingungen) or resonances for stars. Can you provide a reference that explains what they are and how they arise? And how would these affect the orbits of planets?
     
  8. nebel

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    exchemist, I am computer illiterate, but if you google "Kotovo, 160 minutes, galaxy" oodles of papers should come up. I had put together ~ years ago papers dealing with the 5 minute solar pulsation, expressed in the .3 AU orbit diameter differences.
    I put these ideas up here to get checking of the details, refutations.
     
  9. nebel

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    ophiolite, That, to answer your query , makes the appearance of the Kepler 444 resonances so interesting, it gives the opening to compare star pulsations with orbit spacings. Of course we will have to bring the orbit definitions down to the accuracy of Tycho Brahe's, but if we succeed, we could make the Titius/Bode sequence, modified* an universal law. If there was a flaw, it would open the research into further refinements.
    * Bode refined, increasing like octaves over four doublings, ,3 AU to 9.6 AUs, 5 minutes to 160 minutes via "c", and with a minimum of .3 AU and Maximum of 9.6 AU orbit diameter spacings and centered on Jupiter, the Earth, and not Mercury's which is 3% off the big-mass ratios;
    my point is, we would not be be pondering this, if the ratios were not contributing to the long-term stability of the planetary field to allow life to evolve, fleurish; perhaps
    The SETI project should focus on exo-planetary fields that display Titius-type ratios. TTs.
    bsw. perhaps I live on a ophiolite.
     
  10. nebel

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    If we could observe 6 *consecutive doublings of planetary distances and 4 consecutive equal increases in orbital velocities in other planetary systems, we could find the common denominator to the Titius sequence. If it relates to the basic resonance of the host star, a plus.
    *7,-- if you include Pluto as a dwarf planet., an accept the 160 minute end - doubling of Neptune.
     
  11. nebel

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    Consider the orbit of Pluto in the modified "Bode/Titius" law. Perihelion: 29.659 AU; Aphelion 48.87 AU; eccentricity: 19.21 = 2x9.6 AU, the average 160 light minute Saturn to Uranus to Neptune to Pluto orbit diameter spacing. The Telomeres in the planetary field. Neptune's mean , of course close to Pluto's perihelion.
     
  12. nebel

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    14/02/2014;-- Differences in Years, ~82, like a normal human. Earth 1 to Uranus 84~82; Uranus to Neptune, OP ~164 years= 82 ; Neptune to Pluto's OP 246 years = 82. regularities arrived at by Kepler 3 : T^2 = a^3 , -- a : 1, 19.6 , 29.2 , 38.8
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
  13. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    I don't consider these ratios and distances etc, to have any bearing on anything at all.
    For example, we are lucky enough to be living in an era, where the Moon is at a distance from Earth, that enables us to see total eclipses, and Annular eclipses.
    In the distant past, when the Moon was much closer, we could never have Annular eclipses...In the distant future, we will never have total eclpises, when the Moon is further away.
    It just so happens that at this time, the Moon being 400 times smaller in diameter than the Sun, is also 400 times closer to Earth than the Sun.
    Adding to that fact is the sequence of planetary migration that appears apparent in extra solar systems...
    We have many moons that are certainly captured KBOs, Triton being the main one. Add to that the fact that its orbit is retrograde to its planet, and the fact that it will crash into Neptune one day.
    We have moons that actually swap orbits! Epimetheus and Janus, two moons of Saturn, regularly do an orbit swap.
    [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimetheus_(moon)]
    The solar system is still rather a dynamic place.
     
  14. nebel

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    paddoboy, you are right, but the dynamics somehow made things stable for life & us to have time to evolve, and there are patterns in the spacings of the larger bodies, even Pluto (see adjacent thread) and there are theorists that link it to Vibrations.
     
  15. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    Coincidence does not imply design.
     
  16. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    ditto ditto ditto.

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  17. nebel

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    Deacon paddoboy, Where did anyone say, imply "design"? but-- 10 plus coincidenceS might just show Laws working out well, automatically, not tinkering* causation. The laws of Kepler, are working well. The one or two outside connections driving the stability is the 5 minute resonance of the Sun (= .3 AU basic Bode uniy) and the 160 light minute (9.6 Au) outer planet's spacings. * Newton's idea of keeping things humming for so long.
     
  18. nebel

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    paddoboy, as you said, : " The Solar system is still a dynamic place".-yes, with enough disruption among the smaller bodies to keep it interesting for better mutations/re-combinations to find niches. Where are you going to watch the 21 August 2017 400/400 solar /lunar match spectacle?
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Since that is in the Northern Hemiphere, and I'm in Australia, I wont be seeing it sadly.

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    I was though in Cairns to witness a total solar eclipse in 2012, with my trusty pair of shade 10s welding glass.
     
  20. nebel

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    P, many plan to tour North America, for the occasion; my pick for 'must see': the Sequoia National Park, 4000 year old trees standing, a day's drive from the big shadow. The regulars of the solar system.
     
  21. nebel

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    Just to repeat, The Earth orbit Diameter is ~1000 light seconds, then, deducting 300 seconds ( the 5 minute solar vibration) gives 700 ls, analog to .7 AU ( close to Venus by 3%); -deducting another 300ls, gives Mercury, ~.4 AU, ( 3% off the theoretical value and the reason not to use it as a base value)
    moving out from Earth add 2x300 gives Mars at 1600 ls, ( within less than 5% of deviation), asteroids add 2x600 to get to 2,8 : Jupiter at 5.2 AU ( accurate within 3/1000); + double 2.4AU gives Saturn at orbit diameter of 100 000 light seconds, (less than 5% off prediction); add double 4.8 AU or 9.6 AU (160 light minutes ), to come to Uranus, 19.6 ( 2% correct) ; adding another 160 lm, 9.6 AU: Neptune at 29.2 AU (3% off the 160 minute grid).; Pluto, the one on the doubling sequence: add double 9.6 AU to Uranus' 19.6, ~ Pluto's 38.8, (within 1.75 % of theory) Pluto aphelion 48.4 AU ( Nasa fact sheet: 48.485 AU) . Predictions: next major KBBs, TNOs : 58 ; 67.6 --- ( 160 ,light minutes, 9.6 AU sequence) and: 77.2 AU: 154 AU (doubling of distance sequence.
    The mass of all the planets orbits within 1/2 % the value predicted by the amended Bode Titus law,
    using as base 1000 light seconds for the Earth Orbit Diameter, 5 minutes inside, .3 AU minimum orbit spacings,--- outer planets, 4 octaves higher, 32 times wider. 160 light minutes, 9.6 AU orbit spacings.

    Correlation is not Causation, but it is organising data, a valid first step science endeavour.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
  22. Daecon Kiwi fruit Valued Senior Member

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    It's probably no more unusual than spirals following the Fibonacci sequence.
     
  23. nebel

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    Daecon, agreed, the regularities are predictable and beautiful, responding and powered by the sun, like the golden rule spirals in sunflower seed pods.
     
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