The Syrian "Revolution": A Farce from Beginning to End

Discussion in 'World Events' started by ExposingAmericanLies, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,270
    Tell that to those being gassed in Syria.

    Is the life of a Syrian child being gassed to death with Syrian weapons worth less than a house?

    Well obviously yes. Because the cost of sending a few missiles to prevent him from doing it again is apparently less important than housing in the US. I mean during the Rwandan genocide, the US tried to argue that fuel for a plane to fly over to interfere with their radio broadcasting of when and how to commit the genocide was too costly and over 800,000 lives later, the US wrung its hands because it sat on its hands as a genocide occurred.

    The less human rights means to America, the greater its moral decay.

    [HR][/HR]

    Then withdraw from the UN and cancel the treaties to protect human rights that are now enshrined in law in the US.

    Ignore the precedents set and revert back to the days where America was self absorbed. You are no longer the self proclaimed leader of the free world. Nothing more than words. And weak words at that. Broken promises.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    Cause? Please tell me you aren't asserting that Syria is currently stable and free from terrorists and extremists...?
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    I dread the USA getting involved like dread putting my dick in a blender! What a cluster fuck Syria is and even a air assault like the one we did for libya is likely only going to add gas to the fire. But we did make a promise to put our foot down and chemical weapons, fuck!
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,270
    Evidence on the ground will have degraded. Plus Assad's forces bombing the area will have also destroyed evidence that exists on the ground and rubble itself. However it is understood that they (the rebel fighters and other groups (ie doctors, etc who were there)) had taken samples from the victims and managed to smuggle them out for testing. Skin, hair, blood, saliva samples would show what chemicals were used and the US and world community have a fairly good idea of what types of chemicals Assad has stockpiled.
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,635
    The UN does more good than bad - thus it's worth supporting.

    Right. Vietnam. Korea. The Iraq wars. The installation of the Shah. Our support of the Mujahideen. How many did those wars kill? You really want to continue that tradition? You LIKE those precedents?

    Good! It's about time we stopped thinking we were God, and started seeing ourselves as just a member of a global community.
     
  9. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    It is worth noting here that national borders are just lines on a map. My map has lots of lines:
    -One separates my property from my neighbors'.
    -One separates my town from other towns.
    -Another separates my county from other counties.
    -Another separates my state from other states.
    -Another separates my country from other countries.
    -Another separates members of NATO from non-NATO members.

    That people can arbitrarily choose to stop caring about other people for no other reason than that they exist on the other side of one of those lines is obscenely immoral.
     
  10. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    Having lived 200 years ago, he can be forgiven for his naive, underdeveloped morality.
     
  11. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread...nning-to-End&p=3102591&viewfull=1#post3102591

    As I said, I think the only valid argument is the moral argument, the WMD argument. There are bad dictators in abundance around the world. Should the US attack and invade all of them? Who draws the lines? Who decides which countries are worthy of invasion? The US cannot afford to invade and rebuild every country ran by a blood thirsty tyrant as the US has its own internal problems (i.e. Republican/Tea Party conservatism). There are limits; there are constraints on what is possible. And a US invasion doesn’t mean the bleeding stops. The Mexican Drug War has killed about as many civilians as the Syrian Civil War. So does that mean the US should invade Mexico? If we draw a line, I think it needs to be based on the likelihood of success – the likelihood of achieving political stability in the region with the application of military force. Is it likely a US invasion will lead to long term stability? And if the answer is no, then we should keep our powder dry. And I think that question is the reason for US reticence to act militarily in Syria. It is not clear that US intervention will lead to long term political stability in the country. It could make the situation worse. It could broaden the conflict. There are significant risks to any military action. In Iraq, between 4 and 5 thousand people are still dying annually as a result of ongoing military actions. It takes more than military might to restore political stability.

    The costs of reconstructing a politically stable Syrian state will be great. And it seems to me those costs should be shared. Europe, Asia, and the Middle East should all have a stake in Syrian reconstruction. It shouldn’t be just the US. Taking down the Assad government is the easy part. Rebuilding the country is the difficult part and the most expensive part.

    That said, I am sure the US will act militarily within the next few days. I expect US military action will be limited and intended to deter the Syrian regime from using weapons of mass destruction on civilians. I don’t expect an invasion and occupation.
     
  12. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    I would like to know if you (and others) are capable of looking at this through a lens not clouded by your opinion of the US.

    The relevant question is not whether the US should intervene, it is whether ANYONE should intervene: are the Syrian people worthy of intervention to save them?
     
  13. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,738
    More than 190,000 people have been killed in the 10 years since the war in Iraq began. The war will cost the U.S. $2.2 trillion, including substantial costs for veterans care through 2053, far exceeding the initial government estimate of $50 to $60 billion, according to a new report by scholars with the "Costs of War" project at Brown University's Watson Institute for International Studies.

    http://news.brown.edu/pressreleases/2013/03/warcosts

    190,000 dead. 2 Trillion Dollars wasted. Yet you want more of the same?
     
  14. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    Regarding cost: for comparison, wiki lists the action taken in Libya to have cost up to $4.4 Billion total for all participants, of which about $1B was spent by the US. That comes to about $3 per person in the US. Would you be willing to pay that much to depose Assad and stop him from killing his people? I would.
     
  15. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    Why assume it would be the same as Iraq? Why not Libya?
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,635
    Or Vietnam? That worked out well.
     
  17. arauca Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,564
    what do you mean 60000 death soldiers and over 100000 wounded beside the Vietnamese casualty, is that well ?
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,635
    Pretty much my point.
     
  19. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,738
    What? Is Libya your success story?
    Libya is screwed too.
    Here's a headline from last Friday's Wall Street Journal online:

    Libya on the Brink of Chaos
    http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/08/23/libya-on-the-brink-of-chaos/

    The last intervention that was a success was the Nato intervention in Bosnia.1992.
    Perhaps Obama could look at that to see something that went according to plan for a change.
     
  20. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    Sure: so please answer the question! Why assume Vietnam and not Libya?!

    No one is suggesting ground troops, so why are you assuming they will be employed? Deliberate strawman?
     
  21. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    Look Libya was cheap, only $1.1 billion for the USA and no casualties, compared to the clusterfuck of Iraq the difference a clear
    - Have a coalition of nations that cover most of the cost and infrastructure.
    - ONLY DO AIRSTRIKES, NO SOLDIERS ON THE GROUND!

    A repeat with Syria could also be like Libya: cheap and painless... for US... I fear it will provide very little improvement of Syrians.
     
  22. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    You're mixing and matching several different points (cherry picking the negatives instead of answering the actual questions). In terms of cost to the US (dollars and lives), Libya was cheaper. So my question was why would you assume Iraq instead?

    Beyond that is whether the Libyans were worth helping by anyone (that effort was led by the French):
    1. Is it worse there now than right before the intervention?
    2. Given that both intervention and non-intervention are gambles, can you logically weigh the odds of it helping? Is, why does an improvement need to be guaranteed? The only guarantee is that if you do nothing, you won't make it better.
     
  23. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,738
    Cheap?
    You screw up a country and then have the cheek to congratulate yourself that you did it without spending much money?
    You've got to be having a wind-up.

    Is Libya worse? Maybe not for the United States purposes, but for its people it's a worsening mess.
    Read the article.
     

Share This Page