The Tea Party Revealed!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Apr 16, 2010.

  1. Omega133 Aus der Dunkelheit Valued Senior Member

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    I think that if yu want to be an informed voter you should know the whole truth about your opponents.

    That was worded in a strange way.
     
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Why do you require such different standards for the Tea Party? Everything else, I find out about by various sources, comparisons with physical event, etc etc etc.
    How do you know?

    By your criteria, I have to find a registered member (verified how?) and take their word for everything about it. So since you aren't one, as far as I know, I start by disbelieving you.
    The Democrats have no magical powers of compelling belief.
     
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  5. Omega133 Aus der Dunkelheit Valued Senior Member

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    I don't. In fact I think that you should look towards the actual party instead of its oposition, regardless of which party.

    I know a few registered members personally.

    That would be better than believing somebody who's out to get them.

    People can be persuasive, regardless of Party.
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    So you believe the Democrats are the party of personal freedom and liberty, defenders of the Constitution and promoters of true American values?
    Prove it.
     
  8. Omega133 Aus der Dunkelheit Valued Senior Member

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    No.

    What would you have me do? Find a registered member, bring him to your door with the paperwork he did and show you he's a member? You can't really lie about being a party.
     
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Admit that your standards for the Tea Party are different from your standards for other Parties - and not really rational or sensible.

    And that you are not an authority on what the Tea Party is up to, how it was founded, who supports it and why. You have to pay attention to its critics and analyzers, for that.
     
  10. Omega133 Aus der Dunkelheit Valued Senior Member

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    But they aren't. That's like trying to admit me to say i'm not alive. My standard exists for all. I would rather hear the Democrats position from them than FOX.

    Never claimed to be.

    Never claimed to know that.

    But I know who supports, and why they do.

    Wrong. They would be more likely to spread propaganda about the Tea Party then the truth about it.
     
  11. USS Athens Very Special Senior Member Valued Senior Member

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    I have likened the Tea Party to that of the feminist movement of the 60s. They both receive/received a good amount of attention, although not neccicarily the positive type of attention.

    Also, I just recently discovered that one of the Tea Party's goals is to end laws that require citizens to wear seat belts.
     
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I think that is a good comparison.
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Would you believe it? Take the Democrat's word for it?

    Or would you compare it with what they do, the facts and circumstances of physical reality?
    I wonder. What do you really know about, say, the Koch petrochemical corporation ? Their support is large enough and famous enough to have made the analysts' routine commentary, even on TV.
     
  14. Omega133 Aus der Dunkelheit Valued Senior Member

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    You don't listen well. Ofcourse I would varify what they say, but I want to hear the claims from them. I can't put it any clearer than that.


    I don't know anything about them. And why should I? Nothing they do effects me. Way to switch the topic.
     
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    The topic was who supports the Tea Party, and why. You claimed knowledge in the matter. You overlooked the Koch petrochemical corporation? Back to the library, young man.
    You haven't verified anything you've been hearing from the Tea Party.
     
  16. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Is there a Manifesto or something for them, so we would know what they stand for??

    Maybe I will join...
     
  17. Omega133 Aus der Dunkelheit Valued Senior Member

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    And what did I claim to hear from the Tea Party that I would need verify?
     
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    The matter of what you claim, or carefully avoid claiming, is a separate issue.
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Goose and Bacon pâté

    On the Idea of a Tea Party

    We must remember that the idea of a Tea Party is diverse. The term can have at least two applications. First, there is a Tea Party registered in Florida. And then the term is also a catch-all for a bunch of angry people who didn't realize what they were doing when they described themselves as "teabaggers".

    It is worth noting that the Florida Tea Party now faces a lawsuit disputing the use fo their name. Jane Sutton reported last week for Reuters that a federal judge has agreed to hear a challenge to the Florida Tea Party:

    While Tea Partiers generally oppose federal government intervention, they have turned to the federal court to resolve a dispute that arose after Fred O'Neal, a central Florida lawyer and longtime anti-tax crusader, registered the "Tea Party" as a Florida political party in August.

    O'Neal said the name is an acronym for the "Taxed Enough Already" party and that he hoped to recruit candidates to run against both Democrats and Republicans.

    Nearly three dozen people and groups who called themselves part of the Tea Party movement filed suit against O'Neal and two associates in January, accusing them of trying to "hijack" the movement and confuse the public.

    "They're trying to promote candidates that we wouldn't support," said plaintiff Everett Wilkinson, who has been active in Tea Party events and groups. "The people trust us more than the political parties. We work hard to keep that trust."

    The plaintiffs said O'Neal's group is a "fake" Tea Party, a claim he scoffs at.

    "I looked for the rule book but I never found it," O'Neal said on Tuesday. "I don't know what it takes to be an authentic Tea Party versus a fake Tea Party."

    There are dueling paranoias afoot. The activist plaintiffs claim the Florida Tea Party is a plot to help elect Democrats, while Mr. O'Neal argues that the GOP is behind the lawsuit in order to protect their market share among fiscal conservatives.

    One of the problems with the Tea Party's manner of diversity is that it presents a conundrum many infidels have experienced with Christianity. When presented with a theological conundrum, many Christians abandon the corpus Christi and try to distance themselves from people they would otherwise support. This ranges from a simple, "That's not what I believe," to a harsh, "They're not really Christians." And so it is with the Tea Party. When Tea Party activists are presented with a philosophical conundrum, they try to distance themselves from that faction. Again, it ranges widely, from, "That's not what I believe," to, "They're not really Tea Partiers."

    So whatever registered members of a Tea Party you claim to know will likely be disdained or disowned by other tea party activists. Tea Party unity is an illusion for te cameras.

    One might think that a large corporation giving financial support to the organization of Tea Party events is relevant to your perspective of the movement. To the other, it is fallacious to presume that awareness is a necessary attribute of Tea Party activists, supporters, or sympathizers.

    The reality is that the grassroots aspect of the Tea Party is a mess. To the one, there is certainly some grassroots mobilization taking place. To the other, though, the profile of the Tea Party movement would not be so prominent without corporate and partisan support. Perhaps "real" tea party activists disdain Dick Armey's FreedomWorks, but the high profile blurring of boundaries helps keep the movement in the news.

    In Rhode Island, the Tea Party has registered lobbyists at the State House; in Nevada, Scott Ashjian declared his candidacy as a member of the Tea Party to contest Sen. Harry Reid's seat while still a registered Republican. Americans for Prosperity is a Washington, D.C., lobby co-founded by Koch Executive Vice President David Koch; their "grassroots" figures include consultants and lobbyists tied up in the Abramoff scandal. They organized bus trips to ferry protesters to health care protests. Media figures such as Michelle Malkin and RedState, and political personalities like former Bush speechwriter Ned Ryun pitch themselves as, "We, the people". Bush-Cheney campaigners in Minnesota, a former Republican state legislator from Kansas, and a former DC lobbyist in Oklahoma all try to portray their organizing efforts as grassroots. A lobbying firm working on behalf of the coal industry forged letters from various civil rights groups, including the NAACP, opposing climate legislation. All of this, and more, contributes to the diversity and visibility of the so-called Tea Party.

    Indeed, it is worth knowing a bit about whose hands are stirring the Tea Party pot.

    Your criticism of Tea Party opponents suggests they don't have any reliable information. This in itself implies that you have something to work with. And your claim to know a few registered members only reinforces that suggestion. Yet you're presenting an anti-identification. You know something, apparently, but aren't willing to tell anyone what it is.

    And that's fine as far as it goes. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously until you start coughing up something affirmative.

    I understand, though, why some people prefer to go about it as you have. It's a comfortable illusion, one that pretends you never have to risk anything of your own while criticizing others. The implication, of course, is that you are afraid to face the same sort of scrutiny you believe you are applying to others. And that only diminishes any pretense of influence or authority about your argument, and reinforces the broad perception among those who disdain the Tea Party that this activist rabble hasn't a clue what it's blithering about.

    Many Tea Party supporters are so enchanted by the idea, wrapped up in the faux-patriotic zeal and illusion of empowerment that they don't stop to consider what it really is: a diverse collection of factions that disagree with each other on various, important ideas, but pretend unity in a desperate attempt to maintain that rush of empowerment.

    Democrats aside, liberals are generally skeptical of the movement because we've already been through this sort of thing. What was disgraceful only twenty years ago when coming from the left is now expected to be admirable because it is founded in conservative talking points. We don't buy it.

    In order for the Tea Party to be taken seriously, it will have to make certain political compromises. Unfortunately, that is a rule of the American political dance. Liberals hold with Democrats at present because the party is the nearest thing to a voice they have. Some might suggest that Barack Obama's election, or the advance of gay rights, or the superficial successes of the feminist movement indicate the nation is liberalizing; but this argument ignores the realities of policy—the allegedly liberal party has thrown in with perpetual warfare, increased domestic surveillance, reduced standards of evidence in criminal prosecution, validation of torture, massive corporate welfare, increasing restrictions on free speech, and all manner of conservative causes. Meanwhile, the conservative party has simply tumbled into insanity. Of course we're disappointed. Of course we're exhausted. Of course our cynicism grows.

    And the Tea Party will be disappointed in this, too. Republican Senator Scott Brown, described by FOX News as a "Tea Party hero and success story", has managed to disappoint those supporters already. "Gee thanks, Scott," tweeted radio host Michael Graham. "Sen. Brown caves to political pressure." Larry Sabato, of the University of Virginia Center for Politics, explained that his conservative supporters will need to cut him a break if he occasionally compromises with the other side. Those supporters would "much rather have Scott Brown voting with them 75 percent of the time than have a Democratic senator from Massachusetts voting with them zero percent of the time". And that's the way it goes.

    Remember that many conservatives who support the Tea Party are arriving from a former position of disproportionate empowerment. I tend to mock them with the phrase, "O! horrible equality!" On many issues, equality is a step down from the privilege of presumption they formerly enjoyed. This is why liberals laugh when they hear people screaming that they want their country back; what they want is supremacist privilege.

    So these have yet to endure the excruciating process of spending years watching their nearest effective political allies sell them out. Who can imagine a left-wing equivalent of the Tea Party achieving nearly the same success? Who can imagine a leftist carrying a gun to a presidential event while advocating armed revolt earning praise from high-profile pundits on nationally-televised news reviews? If Tea Party sympathizers cannot accustom themselves to routine disappointment, compromise, and the need for genuine hope, they will continue to be viewed as a vapid, ethereal idea whose only effect is to hinder American progress. I don't know whether to go with a honking gaggle metaphor, or bacon:

    Trends inevitably go through their phases—early adoption, buzz, general excitement, overexposure—and bacon is in its terminal stage, clinging to relevance, grasping at any opportunity to cash in on its dwindling cachet as its 15 minutes come to an end.

    (Barnett)

    But that is the risk the Tea Party faces.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    When Trends Go Bad: The BA-K-47, or, what the Tea Party might become.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Sutton, Jane. "Court to hear suit over 'Tea Party' name". Reuters. April 14, 2010. Reuters.com. April 19, 2010. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63D3TU20100414

    Elliott, Justin. "Koch Industries: We Don't Fund Tea Parties (Except For The Tea Parties We Fund)". TPM Muckraker. April 15, 2010. TPMMuckraker.TalkingPointsMemo.com. April 19, 2010. http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsme...g_backers_koch_industries_we_dont_specifi.php

    Peoples, Steve. "RI Tea Party now has registered lobbyists". Projo Politics Blog. April 13, 2010. PoliticsBlog.Projo.com. April 19, 2010. http://politicsblog.projo.com/2010/04/ri-tea-party-no.html

    Vogel, Ed. "Ashjian admits he was registered Republican when he filed Tea Party candidacy". Las Vegas Review-Journal. April 14, 2010. LVRJ.com. April 19, 2010. http://www.lvrj.com/news/ashjian-ad...en-he-filed-tea-party-candidacy-90859689.html

    MSNBC. "Transcript: 'The Rachel Maddow Show' for Thursday, August 6". August 7, 2009. MSNBC.com. April 19, 2010. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32330219/

    —————. "'The Rachel Maddow Show' for Wednesday, August 5". August 6, 2009. MSNBC.com. April 19, 2010. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32315185/

    FOX News. "Scott Brown Tries Balancing Act as Tea Party Favorite in a Blue State". Apri1 13, 2010. FOXNews.com. April 19, 2010. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/13/brown-tries-balancing-act-tea-party-favorite-blue-state/

    Barnett, Erica C. "The End of Baconmania". The Stranger. May 5, 2009. TheStranger.com. April 19, 2010. http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/the-end-of-baconmania/Content?oid=1509727

    This Is Freaking Ridiculous. "BA-K-47". April 12, 2009. TIFR.us. April 19, 2010. http://www.tifr.us/tifr/2009/4/12/ba-k-47.html
     
  20. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    These little old ladies throwing tea parties, as they have always done, now have to worry about armed militias showing up at their door steps.

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    Good post, as ususal, Tiassa. But you said the forbidden word "teabagXX". Mad is threatening to ban me if I use the word. The word police have moved. I would be interested to know if you get a similar warning from Mad.
     
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    Context

    It's all a matter of context, Joe. It's not like he can censor history.

    Well, okay, he can try, but who wouldn't laugh their ass off if he did? That would be an extraordinary maneuver, regardless of how you or I might view his interpretive biases.
     
  22. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well as you point out they put the name on themselves, and they are referred to in the media by the name.
     

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