The trial

Discussion in 'Politics' started by sculptor, Feb 9, 2021.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    23,046
    True but only after Trump had maneuvered himself into a politically intimidating position.
    They became Trumper's only because they had no political alternative.

    Would you say that the mob that desecrated the Capital were:
    • Trumper's?
    • Republicans?
    • Both?
    I think it can be summed up with the answer to the following question:

    Are Trump supporters loyal and devoted to the Republican party or are they loyal and devoted to Trump?

    My thoughts:
    Basically Trump has generated a radical personal support base that the GOP can not ignore and it is in the GOP's political interests to align itself with Trump if he will let them.
    The GOP has suffered significant losses and is still caught up in Trumps charismatic web.

    People like Graham believe that for the GOP to survive they must stay sock puppets for Trumps machinations simply because Trump has a huge devoted support base that couldn't care less about political parties. ( or making USA great again BS) Republican party survival requires them to make a pact with the devil, which is what they are really good at doing. Principles and morality be damned!
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
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  3. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I agree that is one possible scenario but at the moment the GOP is in a state of policy disarray and will need to regroup and consolidate after their parties name has been flushed down the toilet because of the attack on the capital.

    Personally I think Trump if true to form, will implode and shoot himself in the foot and eventually solve the GOP's problem for them. Trump can not sit still and his vanity will require outrageous activity to maintain his devoted support base. ( they feed on outrage )
     
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  5. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Trump ain't a republican.
    The only reason the republicans(rnc) tolerated him is that he brought more voters into voting republican.
    Trumps base seems to get stronger the more he is attacked.
    That's why he played the victim card often.

    moral
    if you wish to strengthen Trumps base------------attack him---do it loud and do it often.
    or
    much like badly behaving children and/or dogs, it is best to ignore them.
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Excellent try!

    We are going to see lots of republicans trying to claim that Trump isn't a "real" republican, and thus avoid the stain of his criminality. They will be crucified by the Trump supporters who believe him to be the best possible embodiment of republican principles. And those two factions will war with each other until the party finds a way to divorce itself from Trump's principles.

    From the results of the impeachment they are VERY far from that time.
     
  8. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 71 years old Valued Senior Member

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    But he's so much fun as a blood sports event
    Can they get him on a sports channel of some sort?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
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  9. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    7,533
    2022
    we have elections on even years (2016, 2018, 2020. ... ... )
    the winners take office in the odd year following
     
  10. candy Registered Senior Member

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    882
    The 4 deaths in Benghazi are remembered because all lives DO matter. To ignore deaths that resulted from inaction facilitates a repeat of the tragedy

    Condoning a little violence leads to more and more violence.
    I found it amusing that the prosecutors chose excerpts from the Charlottesville discussion. It was one of the few times DJT exhibited something approaching empathy. He noted that there were good people on both sides and some violent people on both sides.

    What we need now is a lot more people who are willing to say that there is merit on both sides.
     
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  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    19,420
    Nope, sorry.

    I am not going to agree that Nazis should be listened to, or that they have merit. I am not going to agree that vaccines cause autism. I am not going to say that on the one hand, the earth is probably round, but on the other hand there's some merit to those flat Earther theories.

    I am all for compassion for people who have been hoodwinked by such tricks, and I am all for welcoming them back into the fold. But there is no amount of political correctness that will get me to say that there is always merit on both sides. There really are things that are true and things that are false, things that are good and things that are bad, things that are valid and things that are invalid.
     
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  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    35,774
    I actually meant the next presidental election, in 2024. Typo.

    Yes, I know. And I know about mid-term congressional elections etc.
     
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    35,774
    Didn't you realise, candy, that DJT was dog-whistling to the far right with his "good people on both sides" comment on Charlottesville? That was just after a man had run down and killed a peaceful protester with his car, you will recall.
     
  14. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    4,874
    Another was when he distributed paper towels at Puerto Ricans hurricane victims. Delivering aid, don'tcha know. Also when assured us that the children's cages were clean.

    Show 3 examples of each.

    Explain what the "sides" were, who was on each side and what their respective merits are.
     
  15. Bells Staff Member

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    23,728
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/02...l-republican-party-force-lindsey-graham-says/

    Hopefully this one works.

    And to the voting base, it wasn't "lost" but stolen.

    To them, Trump won. They will and do blame everyone else for their losses. Because Trump won as far as their voters are concerned.

    I think that's what you are not factoring into your equation.
    Yes. But they don't see it that way.

    Consider how many members of the GOP still supported him and defended him during and after the riot.

    What corner?

    Trump is their natural leader. The GOP has been batshit crazy right wing for a few decades now. He didn't back them into any corner. They welcomed him with open arms. Consider this. During the primaries, he accused Ted Cruz of fraud after Cruz beat him in Iowa, made horrendous comments about Cruz's wife, inferred that Cruz's father was involved in the murder of JFK. He treated Cruz like utter shit. Cruz is one of his biggest defenders, even after the riot..

    So what corner do you think he backed them into?

    They could have disavowed themselves from him. They never did. Why? Because he was popular with their voting base. So they literally venerated the man and continue to do so. He didn't back them into any corner. They went wherever he lead them.

    I doubt he will. That's a rumour, but I doubt he would and if he did, he would not win the Presidency again.. Nor would his kids.

    The only way he can win is with the GOP.

    What he will now do is try to oust the members of the party who are not aligned with him, by primary, etc.

    He's not causing further division. He's simply taking over and they will happily let him do it because he is popular with the right. He's not afraid to speak their language.

    Far from it. Unless something drastic happens, they will embrace him and anyone he endorses.

    Gallup reported last month that Trump’s approval among self-described Republicans stood at 82%. And more recently, Monmouth University found that 72% of Republicans continue to believe Trump’s false claims that President Joe Biden won the November election only because of widespread voter fraud.

    He won the primary and was elected.

    Their voters went out and voted for Trump.

    No.

    Both.

    They are the same entity.
     
  16. candy Registered Senior Member

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    882

    I am not asking you to agree with everyone only that you not vilify everyone who disagrees with you.
    People have a right to want to embrace their heritage.
    We still talk about the glory that was Greece and the grandeur that was Rome despite the terror they wrought on the conquered.
    The descendants of the failed Confederacy want to cling to their illusions just as others want to embrace other illusions.
    You do not have to agree with them just let them alone unless they want to cause physical harm to others.
     
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  17. candy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    882

    It is one of the very few times that DJT came close to acknowledging that the other side had merit. I wish for the good of the nation that he had seen that more often.
    As I recall the young person rear ended another car and was surrounded by a group of protestors. He hit people when he attempted to flee the scene. That is different from deliberately driving into a crowd. It is still a crime. It does not outrage public opinion as much when you adhere to the sequence of events.
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    19,420
    I agree. And I try to make clear that it's not PEOPLE that have no merit, it is their ideas that, on occasion, have no merit.
    Also agreed.
    I also agree there. But by the same token, if someone wants their Confederate general statue in the town square, but the rest of the town doesn't - then the town wins. Saying "but it's the PAST! It must be protected from today!" carries no weight with me. We're not in the past any more.
     
  19. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    7,533
    <--- not a fan of the iconoclasts


    ...........................
    but, then again
    I'm a sculptor

    When in Bologna, michelangelo spent a year doing a bronze statue of pope Julius
    After the papal armies had left, the bolognese melted down the statue and recast the metal as a.canon which they then fired off in the general direction of rome.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    19,420
    You recall incorrectly.

    James Fields, a violent, far right activist, drove his car to the event. He followed two cars down a closed-off street that contained the protesters. The protesters swarmed all three vehicles. He backed up two blocks, away from the protesters. His car was then in the clear. He then put it in gear and floored it, driving it into the crowd. He hit about three dozen protesters and the two cars that were ahead of him. One was killed, 11 were seriously injured. They THEN started chasing him with baseball bats as he backed up a second time and tried to flee. Police pulled him over later, seeing his damaged, blood-spattered car.
     
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,046
    Actually you have mentioned something I took a great deal of interest in at the time. It was absolutely amazing to see how Cruz suddenly went from vehement opposition to outright devotee virtually over night. The look on his face when he declared his support for trump spoke volumes IMO.

    Trump indicated he had information that could seriously damage Cruz and the capacity to lie through his back teeth and know that his lies are believed.

    No party aligned politician can with stand a Trump lie onslaught so Cruz buckled and was thoroughly intimidated into compromising his principles yet again. But this time the issue went to his core and not just politics.

    I would imagine that Trump has a well funded dirt file on just about all major players and a file that they know he is willing to use and embellish at whim in a fit of rage if upset.
    You recall what he did to Hillary in the lead up to the 2016?
    You may also recall the birther crap involving Obama.
    One can only imagine what he would do to some one like Cruz. ( who still has presidential aspirations.)

    Trump is a master of back door, behind the scenes intimidation...
    Trump is a master of poisoning. He is probably the most poisonous and toxic person I have ever read about or known of.
    The dirt doesn't stick on Trump but it certainly sticks on others...and he knows it...

    With the support of well armed extreme alt right groups and individuals he has the capacity to intimidate any one...
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
  22. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    5,936
    Fuck yeah! I'm a British citizen even though I've never been there. Just because my father emigrated from Scotland to Canada. He was only a child but after that WWII thingy his parents were like "Fuck Europe." Kinda' wish Britain would've remained in the EU so travel restrictions would be more minimal.

    This is the best take on Scottish heritage, best of Europe, that others feel shamed by.

     
  23. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    4,874
    Embrace, yes. Any secessionist and pro-slaver can have their sheets with holes in, their Confederate flags, their statues of Lee and Davis to hug all they want, kiss their horses on the ass, whatever. On their own time, in their own space, at their own expense.

    If they're going to raise monuments to the past at the taxpayers' expense and in the taxpayers' public spaces, those monuments should illustrate a version of events that represents history accurately. You want a statue to RE Lee in a town square, he ought to be shown on foot, disarmed, surrounded by dead, wounded and captive soldiers.

    These heroic monuments to losers are a gross misrepresentation of "their heritage" - even if the protesting alt-right army at any particular event were actually native to that region.
     

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