The true question of religion and god

Fellow minds -

I am a nonreligious atheistic agnostic. I have never been involved in religion in any way; I have never even been inside a church except for a wedding and a choir performance. I have read parts of the bible for research purposes.

That said, my question is this: At some point in your lives, those of you practicing religion examined your beliefs, or the beliefs that were taught to you, made the decision that they were correct, and subsequently incorporated them into your concept of faith. What did I miss? When I see religion, I see myth created by man to assuage his fears of death and the unknown. I want to know what I overlooked in my assessment of reality. Faith is an effect; therefore it requires a cause. I am seeking enlightenment from those of you who have found that cause. Your thoughts?

FyreStar

 

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FyreStar,

I thank you for your honesty. I have little experience dealing with
agnostics. I'm simply trusting that the Holy Spirit will give me to
say what should be said. I, of course, will back up that expression
of trust, that is to say, I will continue in trust, with prayer for
you. I cannot look so negatively upon you as to say that you missed
something or have been flawed more than other men. In actuality, the
issue is not how much you have seen but, how you have responded to
what you have seen. I will point you to an exact passage in the Bible.

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">Acts 8:26-39</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip,
saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down
from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of
Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the
Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to
Jerusalem for to worship,</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read
Esaias the prophet.</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and
join thyself to this chariot.</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him
read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">31 And he said, How can I, except some man should
guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">32 The place of the scripture which he read was
this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb
before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away:
and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I
pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some
other man?</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the
same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a
certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth
hinder me to be baptized?</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all
thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that
Jesus Christ is the Son of God.</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still:
and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch;
and he baptized him.</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">39 And when they were come up out of the water,
the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no
more: and he went on his way rejoicing.</FONT>

What happened here is that a man from a far off people only had a
tiny amount of truth given to him. How it came his way, who knows.
This truth was confounding to him. Never the less, he responded to it
well. He recognized that this was supposed to be truth. He had no
proof of that. The deep longing of his heart was to understand this
thing. God, seeing his response to the light he had been given, was
faithful to send him more light. He sent one of His trusted to preach
the full Gospel to the man. In the same way, He deals with everyone
around the world. You have a conscience given of God. Everyone knows,
without being taught, that lying, steeling, and murder are wrong. It
runs far more deeply than those simple three examples. How you relate
to the light that you have been given is how God determines weather
or not He will bother sending more your way.

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">Romans 2:11-15</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">11 For there is no respect of persons with God.</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">12 For as many as have sinned without law shall
also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall
be judged by the law;</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before
God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,
do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the
law, are a law unto themselves:</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">&nbsp;15 Which shew the work of the law written in
their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their
thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">Hebrews 4:12-13</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and
sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing
asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a
discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.</FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE">13 Neither is there any creature that is not
manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the
eyes of him with whom we have to do.</FONT>

He knows what He's given you. He knows how you have chosen to respond
to it. There's nothing you have missed. You have had it all along and
known it. Through repetition of wrong choices, walls against God's
law, written on every mans heart, are erected and presumed
indestructible. This is why faith is not a tangible thing to be
grasped. It requires that you trust in what you clearly know to be
there, yet, have absolutely no proof of. As far as the fact that
there are so many religions out there to choose from, I leave you
with these two points. The man considered to be the father of
strategic warfare, a Chinese man ( I do not recall his name )
affirmed that spies are of extreme importance in war. Some spies are
converted and lured in of the foe. Some spies are home grown and sent
out to plunder from the foe. While, yet, most interestingly, some
spies are sent out in hopes that they will be caught so as to add
confusion. There is a war going on right now that we cannot
physically see. Agents of the enemy are everywhere. The results of
their actions against their foe, being us, is evident from the slums
to the White House. The leader of our enemy is more than aware that
humans are easily confused. Secondly, Jesus repeatedly referred to us
as sheep. It's interesting to note the similarities.

1) Sheep are foolish, plum stupid even. If one falls into a
ditch and is removed, if the ditch isn't covered over, he'll fall
right back in it. Having seen his plight, so, with no explanation,
will another. Sound anything like us repeating the same things we
know to be wrong?

2) Being fearful, sheep need a strong sense of belonging and
guidance. Sheep will panic at the slightest sign of danger. They will
even follow other sheep off of a cliff. Think that humans are far too
evolved to do that? Explain the Heaven's Gate Cult. Explain the daily
trading on Wall Street. Explain how a whole nation of people
will stand poised to pull all of their money out of the national
banking system as they hang on the every word of their Finance
Minister or the like. It's happened all over the world and in this
country.

3) Sheep are filthy. They have no capacity to keep themselves
clean. If you've ever seen the back end of a sheep out on the farm
and in day to day life, you'd have no recourse but to believe. How
many times has every man tried to clean up his own act just to do the
same things all over again? How many times have men transferred from
one bad habit to another? How many times have we come to the point of
regret because the plan we planned for ourselves went so foul? This,
too, the whole comparison, is true of Christians. Without following
the Good Shepherd ( Jesus ), who leads in front ( As in the
middle-Eastern method of shepherding -- For all you sheep herders
out there ), we are lost and left to our own devices.

I look forward to conversing with you soon.

<FONT COLOR="BLUE"><FONT SIZE="1"><SUP>All verses excerpted from The
Complete Multimedia Bible, King James Version</SUP></FONT></FONT>

<FONT COLOR="BLUE"><FONT SIZE="1"><SUP>Copyright (c) 1994 Compton's
NewMedia, Inc.</SUP></FONT></FONT>

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Feel free to contact me privately at isda@gte.net . Come to Apostle Creed Online for Christian web developement.

 

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FyreStar,

You stated:

"I am a nonreligious atheistic agnostic. I have never been involved in religion in any way; I have never even been inside a church except for a wedding and a choir performance. I have read parts of the bible for research purposes."


I would disagree with your own self-assessment of being non-religious. Everyone is religious to one degree or another. You can read religiously or attend concerts or even drink religiously.

Our religion simply reflects our acquired viewpoint about the world, life or accepted understanding about the nature of the universe. You definitely have a religion - and it is founded on something about which you feel a conviction.

Your beliefs are probably as foreign and non-sensical to theists as theirs are to you. But you seem to convey a certain certitude that YOUR convictions are founded on something more solid and factual than theirs.
I assume that you are not certain about the existence of a "God" but tend to lean toward non-belief(ergo "atheistic agnostic").

Perhaps it would be easier to discuss the theists beliefs if there was an understanding of what your beliefs are founded on.

 

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Interesed Party,

I'm just wondering. Where do you stand?

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Feel free to contact me privately at isda@gte.net . I'm a Christian Web Developer. I run Apostle Creed Online.

 

My cause was an abortion. The effect, my faith. Now my cause is my faith, and the effects are miracles and salvation.

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God loves you and so do I!

 

Come on... where do you get faith???
I know... faith cometh by hearing..and hearing the word of god..right? The word of
god brings about faith. Yet, all of you have
said that this word was only INSPIRED by
god...BUT written by MAN. hmmmmmmmmmmmm
I suppose one could make theirself believe
anything if they focused on it enough. So
then..this means I am tricking myself to
believe in something. Once I do that...I
begin to act out on it... thus, I could say
then that I was a christian because of faith.. So where does truth come in????

 

Flash,

The truth comes out when God separates the wheat from the tares. You are correct. There are false Christians. Judas was the first. There are now and will be more. However, I choose not to allow the infractions of others steer me away from what is right. Just as I will continue to belive in and practice gun ownership, knife ownership, and hammer ownership, despite the evil doings of others with these things, I will continue to follow God despite the falseness of some among us. I will not be held at bay by the fear of failure. Though I'm sure you would not affirm it, that is what your stance boils down to,... the decision to make no decision to affirm any hope because it could lead to failure.

------------------
Feel free to contact me privately at isda@gte.net . I'm a Christian Web Developer. I run Apostle Creed Online.

 

Flash,

Oh yeah, to answer you other question, you get faith by witnessing and doing. The inventor of the parachute would never have had faith in it had he not first witnessed the properties that went into it's development. In everyone's life there are some things that we would never belive that we could do if not for having been experienced in so doing them. Where faith really comes in is doing it a second time. The first sky dive is easy. The second one, when you know what's coming, is the one that requires the most faith. You express faith just by stepping out into the ocean that the water will not sweep you away. You have faith in something you have observed or experienced. The grace of God can be experienced. I suggest that you look at the conversation that Vicki and I have been having under, "I Belive", for more on what I mean by this.


------------------
Feel free to contact me privately at isda@gte.net . I'm a Christian Web Developer. I run Apostle Creed Online.

 

Flash,

You don't get faith by hearing the word, obviously, or you would have it by now, don't you think? I heard the word plenty and ignored the shit out of it for years before I made the horrendous decision that I did. The faith came from realizing that even though I could rationalize the hell out of what I did, that it didn't take away the pain. From realizing that there IS a right and wrong that I or you DID NOT have anything to do with determining. I just couldn't deny it anymore. Then when you start praying and communicating with Him, you find that it works. He listens and brings about change in your life that is absolutely unexplainable otherwise (yes, even if you're an astro-physicist).

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God loves you and so do I!

 

Lori and Isdaman,
First, there is a scriputre in the bible
that states faith cometh by hearing..and hearing the word of god. You all claim the
bible is the word of god..it's "alive" well
there ya go. Hell, I know there is a right
and wrong..but I believe that all stems back
to what society has taught us.
You know.. Lori, you stated that god would
communicate to others... I am sorry but
BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!
Know what...If that was true... I SWEAR ON
MY LIFE that I'd kneel and say... here I am..
BUT.. I also know what I have sought out.
I think Lori, you became a victim of A LOT
of shit in your life..therefore you also
wanted someone or something to save you
from it... ta da... you find religion.
What better answer right???
sorry..out of time...get back later.

 

Wait, Lori. You mean to say that you went and hurt yourself by aborting a baby to whom you were emotionally attached. And then from the fact that you felt hurt, you deduced absolute right and absolute wrong??? Now <u>I</u> am missing something.

Though I guess doing things you feel are right and not doing things you feel are wrong would indeed be somewhat rewarding, right? So where does God come in, again? (And why the heck is it the Christian God?? Why not an Indian spirit guide? Oh....maybe it's because you were spoon-fed Christianity all your life, as opposed, to, say, Taoism?!)

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I am; therefore I think.

 

flash,

listen to truth and (your sense of ) faith will become apparent. suppose one could allow themselves to see greater truth (belief); it means that what is not truth becomes just as apparent. if one continues to choose a limited sense of objectivity, then the limits are the premise of the 'ends'; greater objectivity reveals a sense of open-mindedness (possibility) which does not mean that everything we are objective about is correct, it just enables the 'observer' to realize circumstances/'facts' for what they are.

: )

 

Flash,

I'm not sure of how much exposure you have had with children. What I can tell you, what I can prove, what I have seen, and what anyone having raised a child has seen is that children know right from wrong without being taught. Everyone knows that you don't have to teach a child to lie. No one has ever had to write a book on how to raise a disobedient, immoral, self centered, thief, and a liar of a child. I look back on the days when my little brother was just a toddler. I was there for his very first steps. It amazes me how I had archived my full height of 6'2" then and he's a 13 year old threat to pass me by now. I also look back in amazement at how before he could speak, that boy could lie!!! I know. That's a mighty powerful claim. Sit back, relax, and I'll amaze you yet. We had a cupboard in the kitchen that extended from the floor to the ceiling and had no doors. On the lower shelves we kept canned goods since they were durable and low risk. My little brother was incessantly enamored with all the colors and shiny edges. These cans still presented a minor threat of pain if dropped on a toe. Besides that, it was important for him to learn about boundaries. Thus, we were keen to steer him away from the cupboard whenever we caught him there. Sometimes, we even enforced it with a pat to the bottom or the wrist. Never was he harmed, but, writhed in anger. In disobedience, evident by his new practice of looking to see if the coast was clear, he continually returned to the cupboard The treatment was the same. The result was the same. He was angry. Ever determined, he began to experiment with new tactics. While in the living room, he'd plainly observe the adult's preoccupation with the television set. A huge grin would break out like a rash across his face. He'd tear out running and uncontrollably giggling. His shangra-la nearly in sight, he'd hang a sharp left to the point of almost defying the laws of physics. The excitement on his face, induced by a canned goods high that's beyond explanation, would instantly shatter just one second later. The word, "NO", uttered from my very lips, would come crashing down on his spirit as though it were the voice of the Creator. Having complete understanding of the word, he'd immediately walk away. The first few times, the very frustration of it all would bring tears to his eyes. I can imagine him thinking, "I WAS RIGHT THERE!" Soon those tears gave way to simple laughter and, "looks like I'm busted", smiles across his face. Knowing that I, his nemesis, his ruler in effect, was swift to all his ways, he devised his ultimate plan ever. Remember, the boy still has no power of speech. He only has some understanding therein. Compounding upon the idea that the adult must first be distracted, which tells you that he had awareness of his own senses and had deduced that ours were in kind after his own, and the knowledge that adults might still perceive his actions, he came up with an excuse for his very activities. It was a brilliant plan considering that the boy was only around a year old. The scheme was simple. First, as always, he'd wait for just the right moment. I also wonder of some of the running he did around the house was to build his stamina for future operations. Second, arriving at his objective, he'd plant the decoy. He'd immediately immerse himself in the enjoyment of canned goodness. As was usual, the FUZZ was not far behind. Now, the lie that he had at some point preconceived in his heart was thrust into action. At the very first instance of the detection of an adult presence, his right hand shot like a rocket. With flawless guidance and in the blink of an eye, he clinched his bottle and presented it to me drawn in tightly to his body. The fearful half-smile, the shivering jaw, the wavering eyes, the short choppy breaths, and the tremble throughout his entire body gave testament of a message far beyond the one he would have presented, which was, "Look!!! I'm innocent. I was just getting my bottle." The message was clear. For the first time, just as I was there to witness his first steps, I too was there to witness his first lie. In time, the physical signs that he was lying passed. The lie did not. It took far longer to teach him that he was not going to get away with it. By that time, of course, he was into many other things. Society can teach us of only what it has from the start. The conscience you have been given comes from the very God that created you. The evil you ( we all ) are inflicted with, comes from the very devil that so many of this world also deny.

Quote:
Lori, you stated that god would communicate to others... I am sorry but BULLS***!!!!!!!!! Know what...If that was true... I SWEAR ON MY LIFE that I'd kneel and say... here I am. BUT.. I also know what I have sought out.

Answer:
I mean you no disrespect, but, it is of great arrogance to think that when you put forth an effort that God must respond on your time table and in a way you pre-prescribe way or that He must even respect it at all. God is neither a coin operated faith dispenser or a dial-a-miracle operator. If you do not respond to what you have been given, He makes no obligation of Himself to give you more. He may. He may not. You are angry now. I can tell. Perhaps you feel slighted by God. Perhaps there is jealousy because others around you have peace and you want it too. I'm sure that you are confounded by and in some ways lead astray by those that are Christians and some that claim to be Christians whom it is that display everything contrary to what you understand that a Christian should be. Let me give some comfort in saying that I too am so confounded by these. I am not perfect. I rely on Jesus to help me minute by minute to be more focused on His righteousness than I was the minute before. I know the man I could be without Christ. I also know what it is like to go astray and to think that I can live contrary to the truth of God. Furthermore, I know the passionate glory of having been taken out of my own filth of my own design and brought back to fellowship with God. I still know hardship to this very day. Pain and suffering still come my way. Jesus is not some narcotic that numbs you to the pain. In fact He calls us to share in the pain of others. I'm grateful that now when I hear of tragedy in someone's life that I can feel and share in some of their burden. When I was gone astray, I became cold and uncaring to almost everything that did not please me. I would advise you, if you really want to understand what and why this is, that you spend actual time around mature Christians. If you privately send me your city and state, I'll be more than happy to forward you the name of a solid church for you to visit. If you do not want to attend, I can assure you that the pastor or one of the elders would be more than happy to visit with you on your terms.

Quote:
I think Lori, you became a victim of A LOT of s*** in your life..therefore you also wanted someone or something to save you from it... ta da... you find religion. What better answer right???

Answer:
I find it very interesting, that in our society, it's o.k. to find salvation from alcoholism, drug abuse, gambling, sexual addiction, uncontrolled fear, and on and on and on. These are things we typically treat with a twelve step program. What they all have in common is that the administrators of these programs have realized that if the person has not hit bottom, if the person does not recognize and admit that this thing has ruined his or her life, and if the person is not willing to submit to being brought out of the dominion of this thing, then, the person cannot be helped! As log as the person still clings to one more drop, one last chip, just a quick hit, a refreshing thought of those past actions, or the slightest desire to take the easy way and cringe, the person is beyond help. They will put the person back out on the streets. In societies eyes they are viewed as good. How, then, is it that, when a person hits bottom and realizes that her sin has ruined her life and that she is in bondage to it, she should be considered weak? Read Luke 10:21-22. The easy way is to lie and say, "I'm o.k. and nothing's going to tell me different." It is the mark of a fool to refuse to recognize flaw. Her lack of perfection is a testament to the fact that, "YES", she is still human. She has the same capacity to obey and disobey as ever. The difference is that she is no longer an orphan. She, now, has a Farther that will bring chastisements and rewards her way. She has a Father that will guide her and interact with her in Love. I'd say that's a ton better than a pamphlet, a diploma, and a lapel pin.

You don't know how I wish I could type the words, "Peace Be Still", and bring the calm into your life that Jesus brought to the waves and the wind. It can't be done like this. Again, I advise you to seek direct interaction with those that have it. I'll be more than happy to help you. You'll never know how close you are to your goal if you give up. Read Luke 11:5-13 and Luke 12:15-31. I would also advise you not to expect some rush of feelings as God does peal away the scales from your eyes. There may be. There may not be. Most cults prey on the unknowing by inducing them to expect some special feeling as proof of divinity,... even those that call themselves Christian. This practice of a dependence upon feeling is false. Feelings are a product like sneezing and a runny nose is a product of something greater. You don't have to have it to have the something greater though. All feelings tell you is how you are perceving reality. They tell you nothing about reality. That's where living in faith come in. The feeling of the moment can drive you insane. You, by your own language, are obviously torn. It does not have to be this way. I will continue to pray for you.

God Bless You, Flash, And All That Read This.

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Feel free to contact me privately at isda@gte.net . I'm a Christian Web Developer. I run Apostle Creed Online.

 

Fyrestar

Let me try to answer your question from my perspective. Maybe this will help you. All my life I have posed questions to myself about life, the meaning behind it and tried to find the answers. I read widely on religions and tried to make sense of the world and my place in it. During all this time I was in contact with Christians who were practising their faith. I could see that they had found something concrete in their faith, and were generally very positive and happy people who really recieved great joy in helping others in any way in which they could. But because I was naturally quite cynical and had also met Christians who were morally questionable in my eyes, and on top of that all the reading I had been doing convinced me that Christianity was maybe just one of many religions the world had to offer and religion generally seemed a man-made concept in which man tried to understand the inexplicaple and mysterious world around him. I thought the Eastern religions ( ex: Buddhism ) were quite cute in their essential goodness and moral standing. And besides they had been around for so long and had millions of adherents. So I followed their ways as a basic lifestyle for most of my life. Yet I never felt completely convinced. But I could not convert to Christianity as my head was full of man-made reasons for not being able to believe. ( Bible contradictions, the mess the world is in ... where is that loving God, the horror of the Crusades, etc ) It took a period of disaster in my life that made me understand that I certainly was not the master of my destiny, to once again pick up the Bible. ( how weak !! )
But the strangest thing happened, A feeling of great calm and peace came over me as I read and I realised that I did not have to face the world alone. All the disasters in my life were not the end of the world. I could find peace in Christ. He could carry some of my burden or at least help me make sense of this trying time in my life ( yes ... unfortunately it took a difficult time in my life to believe. But so what ! I did not get there by accident ) But the strangest thing was, I could not explain the calm and peace I felt. My intellectual self said ... Whoaa ... what`s happening here ? I should be drowning my sorrows in drink ! Instead I discovered my God. Me the cynic, the one who rejected Christianity on the grounds of repetitive anti-Christian cliches
that men are so fond of. What I am trying to say is that I discoverd my Faith at a time when I least expected it. When for the first time in my life I allowed myself to read the Bible without any pre-concieved ideas, but with the approach of a small child, with an open mind. And Wham ... I`m still there. So that is what I suggest you do. Just read the Bible ... without any expectation and with a totally open mind. I could always find many reasons not to read the Bible, but luckily for me I did try again before it was too late. A lot of things about the world that I could never understand has also fallen into place. And no amount of intellectualising could ever have brought me to where I find myself spiritually today. And now I also understand why Stephen Hawking can explain most everything except the very instant of the Big Bang. Thank God.

 

Mock,

you say that you have to read the bible without any preconcieved ideas, do you really think that is possible to do with a book that has been on the bestsellers lists for 2000 years ?
Besides, reading it in a moment of turmoil while you are desperatly searching for some steady ground really does not fit the picture of the approach of a small child I'm afraid.
I was raised as a catholic (as are the majority of my countryman) and had the obligated 2 hours of christian education. There they spoke of different ways to talk to God but they explicitly said that God was not a fireman or an ambulance who is only there when you most need Him.
The strange thing though is that very soon I left the path of catholisism, I was may be 9 or 10 years old but I had to keep on studying it because it was required to pass your schoolyear. That was not the reason why I came to doubt though, as a matter of fact I found catholisism and other religions very interesting but in the same way as I find the behavior of an electron interesting, simply as a study object not as something to life and die with. The thing that made me an atheist is the wonder I find in he universe and how it keeps on amazing people. Just when you think you have figured it out, something totally unexpected comes along and screws everything up. You see, it can't be that simple, I look upon religions as theories of how the para-physical world looks like. I'm quite convinced though that when we die nothing will be as planned, we are all in for a very big surprise !!

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we are midgets standing on the backs of giants,
Plato



[This message has been edited by Plato (edited August 27, 1999).]

 

Plato,

Did you read my last post here? The second to last paragraph should answer one of your questions.

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Isdaman,
Ok, you have put me in a spot.. I'm not
really sure how to respond ... I have sooooooooo many f'd emotions right now...
on one hand I want to YELL...on the other..
well who knows what... that is a lot to digest. I really appreciate your time and
input. I know I sound like I am "yelling"
perhaps I am.... I hate this whole god/christian concept... I can't help it. It's how I feel!!! I have tried..many times
.. I have even pretended to be a christian..
I taught sunday and weds night classes in
chruch..was also a leader of a drama team I
started!!!!! Does that make anyyyyyyyy sense???????? Well, it doesn't to me!!
I feel ashamed for doing that..but shit..
for once the one thing I'm good at..I don't
believe in!!! And the kids..damn..I just
want to help them soooooo bloody much. Some
parents can be assholes, ya know?
I am being truthful as I can be... in all
of that..I NEVER ONCE had a sign or communication with god!!!!!! I know you say on his own time...but how f'n long does it
take??????????????? You'd think somewhere
in there he would say something!!!!!
I know you say give you three things and you
would explain them... I'm saying to STILL
look back..hell I don't know what subtitle
it's under..but where I put the scriptures
at.... there are many examples of contradictions... not ONE person could
DIRECTLY explain them to me!!! I think I
had made a vaild point in them! I still
think you are knowingly avoiding those.
I have my bibles packed... so I am unable
to look up the scriptures you have told me
to. I am moving in a week..so when they
get upacked I will...just to see what teh
heck you are saying.
I don't know what else to say..except..I have
tried it all man! I have also searched the
bible out... remember here I taught out of it.. LOL I am sorry..but I am telling the
truth... it was a f'n big time STOP IT DOESN'T ADD UP for me!! Read my scriptures
again... don't avoid them..tell me why one
says one thing and why one scripture says
the total opposite!!!

 

Flash,

This is just to tell you that I have a detailed response to help you in the works right now. Please, be patient. It won't take too long. Also, I got angry at you and posted a short response to you in some of the other lines. What I said was true. However, it seems that perhaps you really have read through the Bible completely at least once. I can see that you are hurting. The words I spoke to you in that post may be true but, I withdraw the anger. The first thing I would tell you do, despite your lack of belief, is to pray to Him. I'm sure you remember how Jonah never wanted to go to Niniva. He did not agree with God. He acted like God didn't know what He was talking about. The funny thing is that God told him to go anyway. The lesson is that God never requires you to agree with Him. It's better if you do. However, He wants your faith. He understands that for humans, it sometimes takes straight forward obedience ( doing under duress like a child ) to get that faith. Be obedient and pray. Be honest. Yell if you have to. He knows what you're thinking. You can't shock Him. He WILL deliver. He has not let me down yet. If you don't trust Him, trust me. He will deliver. Be patient. A more detailed post is coming.
With Love, and Prayers

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Feel free to contact me privately at isda@gte.net . I'm a Christian Web Developer. I run Apostle Creed Online.

 

ISDAMan:

You make an interesting point about rehabilitation. It would indeed make sense to get a drug addict off drugs, or to reform a criminal. However, do you think it would make sense to take a heroin addict off heroin by replacing the drug with cocaine? In the same vein, why do you think it makes so much sense to resort to religion in times of distress? Why should it be reasonable to jump from an extreme of frustration to an extreme of self-delusion?

Life can only be hard to bear when one acquires tunnel vision and loses the grand picture. How could you ever get depressed about your life if you kept in mind the enormity and complexity of the universe, and the resultant insignificance of all the things that bother you? Religion offers only another version of tunnel vision, an escape from reality -- and a mental escape is certainly one way to cope. However, why should it be the right, or the best, or the reliable, or even an acceptable way?

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I am; therefore I think.

 

plato,

you are well adjusted.