The Trump Presidency

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jan 17, 2017.

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  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I have been monitoring Russian media for some time including some very local news outlets, ie. regional news etc...translating into English is not that hard these days.
    Some of the things worthy of note are:
    • How significantly media organization in Russia exist in fear of persecution if voicing any criticism of the Federal and sometimes local governance.
    • The number of political prisoners in Russia compared to political prisoners of other nations etc...researching the charges brought and the convictions gained etc..
    • Looking beyond the more public and obvious cases such as deaths, attempted assassinations, framings and missing persons associated with political opposition to current regime.. etc..you find the less published missing persons, deaths (politically relevant) listing and other detail to be rather enlightening.
    • The best way I find to discover corruption is how those who venture to voice opposition are dealt with.
    • Also the amount of human trafficking and child exploitation that is entertained and a blind eye being turned towards it is also indicated by what happens to those who voice the need for change.
    • In Russia any opposition to Putin's reign is dealt with aggressively and usually permanently by those with a vested interest in Putin's reign. ( Not necessarily by Putin himself)

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    Here we are dealing with real consequences and not just media hype and opinioned propaganda but real life outcomes that can be documented and held as evidence of corruption.

    The over all generalized conclusion is that Russia is still very much a "sophisticated mob" controlled nation who's globalist intentions are significant and currently being implemented. That the pretense of democracy is a myth designed to obscure the totalitarian reality. That the Russian Deep state is considerably more involved in Russian and international affairs than you would care to admit or even acknowledge. That Putin is being kept at arms length from the mob to provide fake legitimacy..

    So sure while corruption exists elsewhere including the USA it is nothing and quite trivial, when compared to what is happening in Russia.
    While you choose to ignore the reality in the Russia you so passionately support and seek to undermine those who actually seek solutions against corruption, makes the legitimacy and credibility of your opinion dubious to say the least.
    The bottom line is simply that USA media outlets like NYT, WP WSJ NPR etc. could not possibly exist in Russia... period.
    That freedom of the press and speech is virtually non existent.

    edit: One of the most important reforms IMO that the USA could make is to install fixed terms for all members of government including congress and high/supreme court judges.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
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  3. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    I don't believe you and name you hereby a liar. I will take this back if you support your points with examples from Russian media.
    They exist. If you would really monitor Russian media you would know examples. So, this line is already sufficient to prove you are a liar.

    Let's look, for example, at the actual https://echo.msk.ru/ and look at one of the first links, https://echo.msk.ru/programs/nevsredy/2739914-echo/ Once
    For those who have problems with online translation:
    And more of this already about actual politics:
    So, personal attacks against Putin in derogatory, sexualized language, and I don't need any search engine for this because this Western propaganda paper is quite well-known and something bad about Putin can be found there easily every day. And nobody in Russia cares about this. Except for some patriots whining about that paper receiving even Gasprom money, thus, essentially Russian money (beyond, of course, Western support).
    Except that Putin has cared a lot about making those who should have the power according to the law also have that power in reality. There was a deep state rule in Yeltsin time, which was also named "seven bankers rule" because the names of the real rulers, among them mafia boss Chodorkovski (now "opposition leader" of the West), were well-known. Of course, the speculation about the deep state will remain, that is something one cannot control and prove. (That's why I don't speculate about who is the US deep state. I see that it is powerful enough, given in particular that almost open election stealing not of, but against the incumbent president.)
     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Hi all. I hear there was some kind of election. Did somebody forget to tell Trump it's time to leave?
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    As noted, you never factcheck anything.
    Also as noted above: There is only one source on the planet for that claim - years of that kind of post from you, parroting the media feed from that one source, is how you have been revealing your total dependence on it. It owns you.
    The Reps have been losing the popular vote in "Federal" elections for more than thirty years. Before that, after war hero Eisenhower the only way they could win was by capturing the white racial bigot vote of the Confederacy and suppressing the black vote everywhere - Nixon's famous "Southern Strategy". The only way they have "won" or can win 21st Century elections is by fraud and voter suppression - such as they tried in this one, and would have won with had the citizenry's preference been anything short of landslide level.

    And when a lame, corrupt, rightwing corporate stooge as uninspiring and far from representing most Americans as Biden gets landslide levels of national voter backing, you know the other guy was a loser. By the evidence of Biden's massive popular vote advantage a Cocker Spaniel puppy could have beaten Trump in this election, at least once the Republican media feed had managed to separate him from the Party and sell the pretense that he was some kind of aberration.
    Less corrupt than Russia, was the claim. Sure. The US has many States less corrupt than journalist-murdering Putin's Russia. Minnesota is just one of them. Your claim that the entire US is more corrupt than Russia is ignorant.
    The most famous and flagrant examples are currently (Harding etc having been largely forgotten) Nixon, Reagan, W, and now Trump (basically in ascending order, although Trump appears to have been cut off early) - all Republicans who rose to power via the fascist movement that captured that Party after Nixon figured out how to do it.
    btw: There is only one source on this planet for the silly claim that Clinton or Biden are more famous for corruption than Nixon or W. That source owns you.
    - - - -
    "Deep State news organizations" ?
    Admittedly there is satisfaction in watching the closet case wingnuts forget to hide behind ambiguity and innuendo and set their hair on fire in public again - but also a certain sadness.
    - - - -
    Fascists are fuckups, remember? They are also less than a third of the US citizenry, and the suicidally loyal ones less than a quarter.
    The bad guys are an incompetent minority largely sequestered in boondock government dependencies, and the Dems control the money (House) and the guns (Exec) they depend on. The rest of us are a better than 2/3 majority and control most of the significant resources as well as capabilities. We can act as a country without persuading them or "unifying" with them in any way. We have no need to be "amicable". We can roll them, and send them the bill for the damages.
    I agree the odds are the Dems will drop the ball again - but it's not certain or necessary.
    The executive branch of the Federal government runs the census, by Constitutional decree - the Republicans don't have a free hand to gerrymander with unless Biden rolls over for them.

    Look, I don't mean to be optimistic. We all know who Biden is, how spineless and compromised the Dem leadership is in the House as well as elsewhere, how little they can be relied on to act decisively on principle using the full range of their power. But if the Dems do decide to govern here, play hardball with the plague-ridden, debt-crippled, and subsidy-dependent Republican parasites, let the Senate deteriorate into a bribe-soaked debating society trying to pander to Chinese and Russian carpetbaggers, they in fact could.
     
  8. elte Valued Senior Member

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    Hi, would he listen if anyone told him
     
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  9. geordief Valued Senior Member

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  10. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps Vlad might have words of advice?
     
  11. elte Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed
     
  12. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    An thass the pravda.(sorta)
     
  13. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    From your keyboard to America's mind!
    I know they're incompetent and incoherent, but they're also heavily armed and have the huge advantage of slogans instead of independent thoughts.
    You've got a hard slog ahead.
     
  14. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    Except that I don't even read it. Because US media are not in my reading list, except for a few libertarian sources. So it is bad luck for you that a lot of good sources worldwide take their information about the US only from this "one source".

    Of course, they don't, the "one source" is only iceaura's propagandist fantasy. A quite cheap one, and an old one. I have learned already in my childhood that everything in disagreement with the party line has only "one source", evil bourgeois propaganda.

    Wow, it appears that I'm on the side of iceaura. Yes, don't play "amicable", show them all the power you have, imprisoning them, shooting them, taking away their property or at least destroying it. Don't forget to send their families the bill for the executions. You have the power, use it. I wish you success! (and, just out of fairness, the other side too.

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  15. Bells Staff Member

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    Did you learn this in the gulag or the "re-education centre"?
     
  16. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    No, simply in the school.
     
  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    #trumpswindle | #WhatTheyVotedFor

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    Part of the point is simply that one could ever tell a story like this:

    This morning, the exceedingly awkward and ethically dubious dynamic reached a new level when McEnany appeared on Fox News and was asked about the possibility of providing President-Elect Joe Biden with intelligence materials, including the President's Daily Brief (PDB), ahead of Inauguration Day. She replied:

    "I haven't spoken to the president about that; that would be a question more for the White House. But I will say that all laws are being followed with regard to an expected transition, though we expect to continue on as the Trump administration. We will see how our litigation goes."

    To be sure, it was notable to see McEnany reference "an expected transition"—a suggestion that she realizes her boss was defeated—a line she seemed eager to walk back moments later.

    But it was the other part of her response that made me laugh out loud: "That would be a question more for the White House."

    Unless McEnany stepped down from her taxpayer-financed job and failed to tell the public, what viewers saw was the White House's chief spokesperson refer a question to the White House. If McEnany is still Trump's press secretary, she effectively referred the question to herself, since she's the one to whom reporters would direct such a question.


    (Benen↱)

    In the history of Republicans telling us government doesn't work, perhaps the future will consider proper inquiries about why anyone ever would have expected anything else. And, sure, the idea that living up to a punch line about dysfunction is no good way to go through life might occur to some as a fairly obvious suggestion, but here we are.

    No, really, back in the Nineties, when a Republican said government doesn't work, it wasn't appropriate to respond, "Well, of course not, because that kind of incompetence and corruption is what they bring." See, that was the context; it was supposed to be a warning about government in general. And it's true, most of what is wrong about the way the American government operates begins with fundamentally conservative interests and values.

    If I say the Speaker told the President to use executive authority, and then sued the President for doing so, it sounds like part of a joke. If I say the Speaker told the President to use executive authority after a House vote didn't even make it to a vote because the Speaker didn't know his whip count, and then sued the President for using executive authority, no, really, of course I'm talking about a Republican.

    If I say the Senate Minority Leader filibustered his own legislation, it sounds like part of a joke. If I say the Senate Minority Leader, pledged to disrupt whatever legislation the majority brought, introduced an amendment to a bill because he thought the majority would stall against it, and was surprised when the Majority Leader took up the amendment for a vote, so the Minority Leader filibustered his own amendment, well, of course I'm talking about a Republican.

    And if a paid White House official is acting, in personal capacity, as a campaign adviser, well, why not? What Benen describes as an "exceedingly awkward and ethically dubious dynamic" seems like one of those inevitable evolutions of our politicis that wasn't really so inevitable. "McEnany, who ostensibly left the Trump campaign to become the president's press secretary, was both a White House official and a campaign spokesperson."

    Thus we experience a moment of metonymous mess by which the White House just referred a question to the White House.

    I saw this, once, in a pharma advert; the spot re-emerged a couple years later with a recut script, but in the first it came down to a grandfather character explaining that his doctor told him to talk to his doctor. So, no, we can't say that the White House telling us to check with the White House is entirely an unprecedented gaffe, but this is one of those things. Of course it's the party that spent all that time trying to convince us that government just doesn't work. And, of course, when they get elected, they find some way to prove it.

    But even compared to a decades-old punch line—(then again, Republicans have been at this for a while)—what part of the Trump administration and its partisan aid isn't something of an overstatement?

    The White House Press Secretary is supposed to be at least a little bit less silly than harried advert copywriters blithely and mechanically reformulating boilerplate and occasionally missing the obvious. That jab gets complicated when accounting for the role of capitalism in failing to account for the writers missing the obvious, but, sure, even that point finds its way to observing, of course it's the party that panders to and even celebrates that sort of desperate capitalism.

    Still, it's the Trump administration. We might wonder what his voters expected. Or not. Compared to history, the sort of basic, day to day incompetence we've seen from this administration is pretty much what they voted for, but never really wanted to admit. After all, they've spent how long trying to convince us otherwise.

    Bothsides note: They pretty much had to come right out and say it, and do it, and live it, before the middling majority would grudgingly acknowledge it was true. Those who believe in better things ought to take the note, and figure it out, because the grifters are already working toward the next run.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Benen, Steve. "White House press secretary refers question to the White House". msnbc. 12 November 2020. msnbc.com. 12 November 2020. https://on.msnbc.com/2Iu387e
     
  18. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Short version:The White House Press Secretary referred a question to the White House and thus to herself, no really.
     
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Contingency planning:
    Like many I would be confident in thinking that Trump ( along with his administration) in his delusional state is probably hoping, (and inciting) that his supporters will defend his false claim to the presidency by barricading the White House. It is not hard to imagine such a situation where by thousands of armed Trumper's surround and attempt to maintain Trump as their president with the threat of revolution and an act of revolution.
    Doing so is more a revolution than a civil war because to achieve their end the constitution that removes Trump from office (elections), you know the one that Trump holds with contempt, has to be thrown out and rewritten.
    So.... I do hope given the insanity demonstrated so far, that those who hold their vows of office sincerely and citizens who support their nations constitution are prepared and are planning for the possibility of such an event occurring.

    "Picking through the rubble that was once the White House, on the day normally reserved for the inauguration of an incoming POTUS one can only image what Hollywood movie Trump had been inspired by." - fiction ~ Title: "If I can't have it no one can"
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
  20. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    it doesn't matter what you believe... do the research objectively for the next 6 months or so and get back to me and we shall compare notes.
     
  21. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The Dems don't have those powers - the police do, since partisan Republican behavior has been disproportionately criminal under local, State, and Federal, law; but they are Republican (they will probably continue to focus on punishing libertarians and lefties and nonwhite ethnicities instead, by all means including beating and killing, as they have for decades).
    Meanwhile: my description of Dem capabilities was lifted from the actual Republican behaviors you have been defending and excusing, edited to omit the gross illegalities and violence and treasons (the Dems are not fascist). Do you know why you didn't recognize it? Hint: Such recognition would require a little bit of information about real events and relevant physical facts. It's not part of the media feed from the propaganda operation that owns you.
    Of course not. Neither do the US Republican voters, with whom you share victimhood. Neither do the Bandarlog who post here - nevertheless they like you parrot its media feed. (Sculptor just the other day posted a reference to "deep State news organizations" that have declared Biden the winner of the election). Your source assumes that you aren't reading it. Reading for factual information and analysis is something liberals and lefties do (this has become almost an equivalence relation - since the 1980s, when the corporate authoritarian right attempted to boycott and bankrupt Scientific American magazine for publishing articles on Reagan's "Star Wars" initiative, possessing factual information and analytical comprehensions obtained by reading has often defined one as a lefty or liberal in the US.

    That source that owns you targets people who don't read it - the famous American "low information voters", your ideological companions in the US political faction you have joined on this forum. Like you, they are unable to defend themselves from its manipulations; like you, they have no base in physical reality from which to identify, evaluate, and assess the media feed that bombards them from the most effective and well-funded marketers and propagandists in the world - the US "corporate capitalist authoritarian rightwing militarized etc etc" that was normally and unexceptionally called by its name - fascism - until Western cameras recorded what the soldiers found at Dachau.

    You still haven't read the Mueller Report, for example. Still haven't read any sources of factual information on climate change, American racism, the American Civil War, American politics, or Trump's career and biography. Haven't read Picketty or Stiglitz or even de Soto - after asking for references to their discoveries and insights, and being provisioned. Like the typical American Trump backer, you might as well be illiterate. (The one who won't read has no advantage over the one who can't.)

    You can verify that assessment for yourself, btw, like this: note that you have many opinions about that stuff, opinions that you post and defend here, but you don't know where they came from or what their backing in physical reality is. Your opinions about the contents of the Mueller Report, for example, or how farmers could handle climate change, or how climate researchers are pressured by their funding, have no factual origin you can identify. That's what it's like to be owned by a propaganda operation - lots of confident opinions, no idea where they come from or what's backing them.
    ?!
    So you confirm my claim, posting agreement with my every assessment of your posting, describing an important aspect of the mechanism by which you have been owned by that source in perfect agreement with my observation, while denying it.
    Unfortunately, you didn't learn in your adulthood how to distinguish a Party line from a common physical reality, how to distinguish bourgeois from fascist, how to paraphrase accurately, or why other people value those capabilities and mistrust those who lack them.

    One consequence of neglecting that area of your education has been that you are unable to defend yourself against US marketers and propagandists, and have been made a tool of the scum of the earth.

    And your direct, overt, and unafraid presentation of your toolhood here is why I put the typing in to these replies - you represent that ideological faction of American politics with unusual clarity and open innocence, despite or maybe because of your status as a foreigner. You have not been painfully taught wariness by a life's experience of confronting American lefties and liberals, better informed and armed with functioning memories as they are. You are useful.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2020
  23. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    I would be so sorry for that schmuck - if he were less toxic to the rest of the world.
     
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