The Trump Presidency

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jan 17, 2017.

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1. Quantum QuackLife's a tease...Valued Senior Member

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well.. trump ensured that any objections would be withdrawn due to his serious lacking of wisdom.
He simply shot himself in the foot and took off a few toes.
Such is the Republican incompetence sponsored by Russian interests including your self of course...

I also wonder if this occurred in Russia what sort of outcome could be anticipated...
Say Putin was president elect, how many people would be slaughtered and sent to political prison.
Then apply similar to China...
compare conclusions and reappraise your perspective...

====
You also fail to consider that criminal charges can not be applied to a sitting president. Any evidence would naturally be with held from publication until the person is able to be charged.

The Mueller report has yet to be fully disclosed.
The Epstein case has yet to be resolved...and the ex MI6 guys report earlier on may yet see some oxygen...
and all the other crimes, (most probably including insider trading) undisclosed will get some action on once Trump is vulnerable to prosecution.

Last edited: Jan 14, 2021

3. mathmanValued Senior Member

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6 days to go! Good riddance!.

5. arfa branecall me arfValued Senior Member

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Rudy Giuliani is on the out.

Trump won't take his calls, and isn't going to pay him. After all, Rudy failed to come up with the evidence.

So how much does Rudy know, about where the bodies are buried?

douwd20 likes this.

7. sculptorValued Senior Member

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Rudy has been a loyal friend to Trump

13. Quantum QuackLife's a tease...Valued Senior Member

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You probably are unaware that it is highly likely that the Epstein case will implicate global Freemasonry (male white supremacists) after Trump's participation with a certain British royal has been fully investigated. Remembering that that there are other than USA based investigators out there.
The point being is that it is not only Trump that is involved. Putin, will also most likely be caught up as will a number of high profile Russian oligarchs. The GDS Global Deep State as you may choose to call it, is a hell of a lot deeper and influential than you realise...

Edit: I just thought I'd add the above because I know just how much you love a conspiracy theory.

....and perhaps you need to expand your focus to include places, people and organizations other than just in the USA. Or are you just another sheep?

Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
14. iceauraValued Senior Member

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Nor do you listen to people who attempt to inform you, nor do you investigate for yourself. Factchecking is something you never do here. (You will not, for example, bother to find out how many of the judges who ruled against the Republican Party's bs were appointed by Trump or some other Republican ).

The lack of knowledge about the domestic US matters revealed in your posting is its second most visible and significant attribute (the first is its adherence to the Republican Party media feed).
Not true.
Your attempted points have all been about the reality of "all this" - not merely its appearance to gullible and ignorant outsiders such as yourself, but its factual nature as would influence future events. You are trying to market a reality, not describe a delusion of ignorant "outsiders".
And your attempt to cover your ass like that is something you have done everywhere you have posted on matters of fact and record - from climate change to child labor, from who started which war to what pressures bear on which public figures.
Nope. It is not only "plausible", but informed.
Only in the view of the ignorant.
You have already had your ignorance of the powers and capabilities of the US Presidency pointed out to you - you nevertheless continue to post as if a US President were some kind of tinhorn Putin.

But that familiar aspect of your posting does not fully explain your odd vocabulary in this specific instance - "arbitrary demonstrators" is a bizarre way to refer to well-equipped military trained professionals engaged in an assault, and "weakly suggest" is either complete ignorance on your part or a fairly sophisticated deception - something you picked up from the media feed you parrot.

That is: The cover of innocence you seem to be attempting via your many claims of ignorance is not holding. It never held for your source - the Republican media feed is not innocent - but you have been attempting to dodge the implications of that by claiming ignorance of your source. That claim is blown - your attempt to label the Capitol assault mob "BLM/ Antifa" overkilled what had become obvious.

15. SchmelzerValued Senior Member

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As long you mingle "objective facts" with what the Western mainstream media write, you will remain a propaganda victim. Don't think that I hope to communicate something to you - that can happen only by accident. I'm here because those who write here are from the political enemies, and so I can see from their reaction if the arguments are good or not. If they are bad, I will see some corrections here, of the content (say, the claim that Dems ruled the police - an error of the blogger who has thought that this is local police, which, in Washington DC, which is Dem ruled, would be ruled by the Dems, or the arguments made by Tiassa against that pdf about the election fakes). If the arguments are good, I will see only cheap ad hominems or simply personal attacks.
Feel free to show me some of them. Don't speculate about me, you will err anyway. Care about the facts.
Learn to use the invectives appropriately. Sheeple are those who follow the mainstream without thinking at all. This comes from the typical behavior of a sheep, which follows the other sheeps. If one hears the sides and makes an own decision, one is not "sheeple", even if the final choice is one of the mainstream sides.
What about the timeline? I have mentioned it twice here but not yet seen an objection against the claim that the first have been inside the Capitol even before the end of Trumps speech. Ok, I will look myself. Let's take the official pro-Dem source, NYT, https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/12/us/capitol-mob-timeline.html
So, this was not incited by Trump supporters incited by his speech. (As I have heard, the Trump speech has been delayed. So, it would be a plausible version that the provocateurs had their own time-line, with the attack starting after the end of the speech. But once the speech was delayed, they started too early. Coordination error on the other side.)

Of course, Trumpist sheeple would hear what their hero Trump is saying, and only after this they would do something else, so your sheeple theory of pro-Trump sheeple would be incompatible. Of course, once they arrived there and the Capitol appeared to be already taken, they follow.
No base. If you would be able to construct an argument out of this, you would do it. To say what you say is not an argument, once not supported by something.
QAnon says the same in the other direction. QAnon at least has a lot of believers, you haven't. Mountains of unpublished facts don't count. All those funny "facts" of the intelligence agencies they cannot present because they are secret or so. Laughable.

They are secret payments from the Rothschilds or so. LOL. They are hidden somewhere in Central Africa and in Western banks, under another name so that the Western powers cannot confiscate it or so. You believe such nonsense? Similarly for that nonsense:
As usual, all those who speculate about what I like are completely wrong. Is that a consequence of projection? Or simply because those "I know how much you love" are simply primitive personal attacks?
About the US one necessarily has to care, given that it is the most aggressive, most evil, most dangerous state of the Earth. Else, I would not care at all about those stupid fat guys without any culture.
Iceaura writes a lot of the usual lies and personal attacks against me, and simple claims without any evidence in their favor.
Have I made an argument depending on this number?
I describe the reasoning of reasonable people who don't have first hand information. Such reasoning starts with "cui bono".
So now those going inside the Capitol were "well-equipped military trained professionals engaged in an assault"? Ok, I have not heard yet about this. (No doubt, among the demonstrators will be also some military trained professionals - they are people too, and some 50% or so of them will be Trump supporters too. But even in this case "arbitrary demonstrators" would be fine - they would be accidental among them. If they would be, instead, well-organized, that would be a different point. But then please the evidence. In this case the idea that they have been incited by some emotional speech of Trump would be completely off too. Military professionals do not do such things on emotions, but follow orders.
You make here the same lie as James R that I have labelled the whole mob BLM/Antifa? I have certainly not. I have always only told about some a few busloads of provocateurs. (That's because claims about some busses have made it into the external media.) Which would be which percentage of the whole demonstration?
If it was done by provocateurs, then 5 killed is what has to be expected. At least one from both sides is what is necessary to feed hatred on both sides.

16. Quantum QuackLife's a tease...Valued Senior Member

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lol...sheeple are any one who follows blindly...

17. Quantum QuackLife's a tease...Valued Senior Member

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and you call this evidence?

How many buses exactly are you alleging? Do you have any photo evidence that would stand in court?
and yet again you missed the point...It may not be only Trump that goes to jail...as you suggested
No it's not about secrecy it is about timing...no point wasting good evidence on someone who is immune to prosecution...
I rely very little on what media writes. Watching live video tells most of the picture ...no words needed...

Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
18. arfa branecall me arfValued Senior Member

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Is Donald Trump a traitor?

A traitor is someone who materially aids or abets an enemy. If there are groups of organised seditionists in the US, clearly they are an enemy, just a domestic one.

19. SchmelzerValued Senior Member

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• Please do not tell lies knowingly. In this case, it is well documented as to who the protesters were that invaded the US Capitol, and who they were supporting in doing so.
No, I call this explanation what is sufficient to do the job of provocation.
The sources I have seen have made claims about two buses. Obviously pictures of buses alone could prove nothing. I have never claimed to have seen evidence sufficient to stand in court. From what I have seen, some pictures of some guys which were claimed to have been identified as BLM or Antifa supporters or so could, in principle, stand in court if the identification was correct. Who knows? I don't. Anyway, it would not prove much. That would require sophisticated police work which identifies organizers, but who is interested in this?

To repeat myself: I do not even claim to have any proof that this is a BLM/Antifa false flag operation. Here are my claims:
- The official Dem version (Trump has incited that storm with his speech) is extremely implausible.
- The consideration of cui bono suggests a Dem-side provocation. Evidence: The Dems obviously have gained a lot. And there is no plausible scenario how Trump could have gained whatever from storming the Capitol.
- Claims about evidence for the presence of provocateurs have been made a lot, enough for foreign observers getting them and distributing them further.
Sorry, no, I don't suggest such things, that should be a misunderstanding. In fact, I suspect a lot of people will go to jail in near future. I made no definite claims about this, but if the Dems follow the aggressive line they have taken up to now, one has to expect a lot of more repressions coming against the Trumpistas. Of course, the repressions will follow after the final takeover 20.1.
Sometimes yes. But identifying provocateurs simply by watching a video is a hard job. If you have software for face identification and a sufficiently large database behind you, that's a different question. But beyond this, they try to present themselves as average participants of the demonstration, thus, plausibly with some pro-Trump insignia, MAGA caps or so.

Another case where it is not easy: If one sees some video of police violence against demonstrators, one also has to be aware that it may have a context not shown in the video. I have seen such a case live in Germany: 1 May demonstrations, in Berlin long ago, at a time when they were usually much more violent than today. A guy close enough to me to see the details throwing stones at the police. Nothing happens. Then, some time later, that same guy doing nothing, a group of policemen came nearby, running, and then running toward him and taking him. A video from that action alone would have shown the police attacking a peaceful standing man. Not sure if the police would use this tactic today, too much phones, so the typical picture today would be police reacting immediately to violence. But the other side will often cut that context of violence by the "victim" of police violence. So one also has to look if there is sufficient context in the video.
No big difference - typically they follow the majority, but, ok, in principle one can also follow blindly a cult leader of a small cult. But note: The emphasis in that sentence was "without thinking at all". And cult followers have usually thought about joining the cult, and joining it is usually connected with breaking with a lot of other people - nothing typical for sheeple.
Of course, once you have a nearly 50:50 division of a whole country, sheeple will be on both sides, they will usually follow the local majorities.

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Q

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21. pjdude1219The biscuit has risenValued Senior Member

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you really dont care do you. you truly are that dead inside. that this exact rhetoric got 5 people killed and your still pushing this nonsense. they were no provocateurs. these people were the provocateurs at the left wing protests you hate. this was all the fascist thugs you've been supporting for the past years. trump encouraged them to attack the capitol and they did because they are prone to violence.

22. SchmelzerValued Senior Member

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Provocateurs are very dangerous criminals, part of organized crime on the highest level, and they fulfill what their chiefs tell them. If their chiefs have an interest in victims, then they will murder as well. And of course they will not murder themselves. So, the very idea that these "5 people killed ... were no provocateurs" would be somehow an argument against me is completely stupid.

It looks like you are now the third (after James R and iceaura) who does not know completely how provocateurs work.

23. Quantum QuackLife's a tease...Valued Senior Member

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I bet Ken Kesey, author of "One flew over the cuckoo's nest" never thought that Trumps self delusion would appear to replicate that of Randle Mc Murphy ( played by Jack Nicholson) when he decided to incite his own downfall...