The Ultimate Deception: Journey Into Light or Darkness?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Micah, Jan 13, 2000.

  1. Micah Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    48
    My words have not been spoken with hatred, with sarcassm, or with any long debates about who is right and who is wrong. I have simply spoken from my heart, I give you the words that have been inspired to me to write.. I dont claim to be any religious theologian, celestial professor or any other type of brainy intellectual.. I hate religion its just another law to keep people trapped in the own little prideful worlds so that they can spend long hours of discussion on who, what and how to believe.. Yes it is heartbreaking to hear the anger, the hatred towards Jesus, because he loves us so much, maybe because of the truth that I have sought after many, many years of searching I have found, I simply wanted to share with you all not to push you into my beliefs, but to give you the information in love so that you all can test the spirits yourselves. I dont speak in fear, in anger or in hatred.. My words are spoken with respect, they are spoken from the heart only to inspire all of you....I dont expect you to know me, are to even welcome my words, but know that there is a greater power here at work........
     
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  3. truestory Registered Senior Member

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    Amen, Micha!

    You are welcome here, as are all of us.

    Thank you.
     
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  5. 666 Registered Senior Member

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    378
    Micah,

    No it was all implied.

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    My life could have been black and white, but I had to color it.
     
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  7. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    771
    Lori,
    By this you mean how many christains have to tell me. You totally want me to drop the things I believe..things which have been more real to me than your god...all because you KNOW you're right, huh? Well, what if you are wrong, Lori?!?!?!?!?!? Oh believe me..it could actually happen..I realize this is hard for you to comprehend as you do not think you are below being wrong.

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    You choose to forget the FACT that I have been in the "church scene"...do you not think I was exposed to teachings which you shout all the time???? You think I haven't thought about or weighed things out regarding christianity????? No, you do not want to look at it in that light do you? Why??? Because it just does not jive in your head that anyone could reject what you believe..and not thought about it before.

    Where in the heck did you EVER get the idea that I thought I was perfect???????? I have never claimed perfection in my life!!! I believe I have much to learn... I just seek to learn it from a different source than you is all. But here we go again...Lori is always right..and Flash is just blind and doesn't give a poop about anything..

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  8. Lori Registered Senior Member

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    1,065
    What exactly are you learning again and how?

    ------------------
    "Go Jesus, go! Go Jesus, go!"

    I finally get to be the cheerleader that I always wanted to be but could not, as I was not a fluff chick.
     
  9. SkyeBlue Registered Senior Member

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    260
    Micah -

    Actually, this can be for everyone...

    I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding going on here - just because someone doesn't believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that doesn't equal hatred. I keep seeing these lines from the Christian camp about the "hatred of Jesus", and I don't think that's really the case.

    Of course, I can only speak for myself, but to judge from the posts I have seen, that's my conclusion. I think maybe you're reading a bit too much into the statements made by the non-Christians - I think the "hatred" you are sensing is the dislike directed towards those that proselytize - those that thump their bibles and insist they are on the One True Path to God.

    I have been doing a lot of reading lately and let me paraphrase a quote I have seen a few times, in various forms:

    All paths are valid, they are merely different routes to a common center.

    I, personally, have nothing against the teachings of Jesus. I believe he was probably a very good man, and saw that the people around him needed spiritual guidance. I do not believe he was the Son of God, or that he was 100% correct - does that mean I hate him?? Does that mean I refuse to take lessons from his teachings? No, it doesn't. It means I'm going to take his words and find what truth I can, just like I do with anybody else's teachings. Just like I'm not afraid to challenge my own theories, or anyone elses, I will challenge his words. Since I believe he was just as mortal as anyone else here, I can do no less. This is not hatred, this is critical thinking.
     
  10. Micah Registered Senior Member

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    48
    When you have a friend that you love and care about, you want to give them all the equipment they need to conquer whatever it is that may be hurting them, or bringing them down. Sometimes friends, as do mothers and fathers with their own children do things or say things out of love that may seem hurtful, harsh, or demanding, maybe confusing.. As a child grows he begins to see how much his parents loved him, or tried to do what they thought were best.. Until we can look at things with that kind of heart, then we are open to what we were trying to be taught.. It is our rebellious nature that keeps us from learning, from exploring and from growing to higher heights. Our pride keeps us from true love, it may keep us separated from the ones we love and who love us the most for many years.. When your heart is ready, when you dare to let an ouce of hope in - miracles can happen...
    LOL
     
  11. Micah Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    48
    Skyeblue;
    Well said..Thank you

    [This message has been edited by Micah (edited January 14, 2000).]
     
  12. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    771
    Micah,
    Just who the heck are you??????? Why do you keep avoiding this question????

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    Faith: not wanting to know what is true.
    ..........Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
  13. Lori Registered Senior Member

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    1,065
    What the hell do you want to know about him Flash???? Why are you so f'ing paranoid about who he is? What do want his birthday, social security number, mother's maiden name? What, are you afraid that he was sent by the evil Jesus to sabotage your truth? You make me sick with your lies. Why don't you share with everyone why it is that you're so paranoid????? Then again, why don't you not and keep on lying to everyone like you have been.

    ------------------
    "Go Jesus, go! Go Jesus, go!"

    I finally get to be the cheerleader that I always wanted to be but could not, as I was not a fluff chick.
     
  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    Lori--

    That's a mighty bark. Hmmm ... maybe I'll reserve the rest of that.

    I'm sorry you're not a fiction buff. So how do you explain your adherence to the Bible?

    But the more relevant point I was trying to make about "Mockingbird" was when Atticus explained to Scout that "You can never really know a man until you walk a mile in his shoes."

    That said, I might point to the topic in which I asked how many "Christians" at this board were once pagans. I got mostly the answers that I expected, and that's fine, though none of the pagan-cum-Christians could express the form of their paganism short of living without Jesus.

    I quote the first line of your response: "Never a pagan; just didn't really give a hoot one way or the other."

    So, if you haven't ever been a pagan, how do you expect to view Christianity as others see it, in order to address its wrongs? I mean, I could be a Nazi, if I wanted to, but I am unable to separate National Socialism in that German vein from its inherent antisemitism. Likewise, I know how Christianity operates: I took part in that dog-and-pony show. But you haven't taken part in the one that Skye has, nor the one that I have, nor anyone else. Thus, you actually have no idea what you're talking about when you respond to their questions and comments.

    It's a form of compassion, see? That you can look at a person's circumstances, view the conditions in relation to that individual's station in life, and begin to translate out the hitches that cause static when one individual's ideas meet another.

    It seems that Christians on this board are operating within their own sphere of reference--though Truestory missed the mark when she thought I was accusing Christianity of being a social club, it starts to sound exclusive when you tell other people they are incapable of recognizing something they once were, and furthermore tell them that your ideas require no compassionate examination of anyone else's.

    So, unless you are--if I might borrow such a Christian phrase--as retarded as a brick, you might want to stop tromping around with such smug comfort in your assumptions.

    And it's true ... Christ's true message is easier to understand than I'm making it. So is gravity. In other words, "Gravity makes things go down." It's fair, applicable within the confines of the earthly circus, but once you leave the sphere of the planet .... Christ's message is love and hope and salvation. That's fine, so long as you restrict your definitions of those words to the Christian sphere, where slavery is compassion, forced illiteracy is love. More modern ideas? We've been through the roster of the unholiest of holies before.

    So your problem seems to be that you're unable to realize the impact the negative events of Christian history have had on the way faith was given to you. Furthermore, you're so insecure about your faith that you have to defend anything that you might interpret as hostile to it. There's a lot of people who would reconcile God if the Christians would shut the hell up and let people work. But people who talk and think like you, Lori, are the reason that Christ's potential continues to filter out into cheap sales-pitches and angry threats. Think about it: is it possible for a negative event to be positive in the grander scheme? In other words, when people try to address darker aspects of history, why do you and Truestory and others refuse to acknowledge them? After all, if it can be shown that, say, the rape and torture of thousands of women had any sense of positive impact in the long run, then we must re-examine our sense of God's will. But you sit comfortably in your own sphere of smugness, knowing that these issues don't exist because YOU don't like them. Explain that to God, why don't you? Because you're gonna have to make a hell of a lot more sense than you've utterly failed to make on these boards.

    Think about it: Inquisitions--bad things. Well, were they? What did the culture gain? What did it lose? What moral balance was at stake? Yet you'll never make these considerations because it might mean your comfortable, customized, self-assumed version of God needs to change.

    And all because you don't have the compassion to examine other people's perspectives. Okay? Stop looking just at the surface of the situation. Is it wrong for that guy to hit his wife? Yes. Oh, wait, she was coming after him with a kitchen knife, so we have new considerations in our moral assessments. But, by your definition, it's wrong to hit your wife, so to hell with the husband--lock his ass up!

    And all because you lack the simplest of human compassions.

    Oh ... and it's only NOW that I'm getting around to believing that you might actually be a spoon-fed imbecile. Hey, it's your standard to insist. After all, for all the parroting of "I'm no dummy" you like to give, you have yet to demonstrate that your intellect extends beyond your pedestal.

    Get off the high horse, Lori, before you accidentally snap the rope tight.

    --Tiassa

    ------------------
    Take a side you say, it's black and gray. And all the hunters take the hunted merrily out to play. We are one, you say, but who are you? You're all too busy reaping in the things you never sown. And this beast must go on and on and on .... Nobody gives a damn. (Floater; "Beast")
     
  15. Micah Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    48
    Flash;
    I prefer to remain anonymous..for now....

    ---Come to me all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light---
    Matt 11:28-30
     
  16. truestory Registered Senior Member

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    1,122
    Skye,

    I must disagree with your interpretation that this is a misunderstanding... there is noone who has expressed that a disbelief that Jesus is the Son of God equals hatred.

    It is the cancerous, outspoken, bigotry against Christians as both a group and as individuals which, although wrong, is being sanctioned by many on this board and which has evolved into direct hateful attacks against Jesus Christ Himself.

    I am with you in that we all need to be able to discuss our ideas in an atmosphere of love and respect, conducive to the free-exchange of ideas. We do not all need to agree. If we did, there would be no need for this forum.
     
  17. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,884
    Uh-oh ....

    I smell an "Oppressed Majority" argument coming on.

    Truestory I think you need to reconsider your terms of bigotry.

    I suppose, on the one hand, that it's slightly unfair to say that just because many individuals are tired of having various Christian provocateurs telling them they can't buy this record or shouldn't see this movie, or sleep with the person they're in love with, or, or, or .... The list goes on. And, yes, it might be unfair to hang that on all Christians.

    But it's so consistent that people are actually irresponsible to themselves if they don't protect themselves from that kind of perceived hostility. After all, how long should people beat themselves against the wall waiting for Christianity to show an inkling of its alleged potential?

    But since you're not part of that Christian body social ... well, why are you worried about it? I mean ... if the "church" people's voices don't represent you, then the resentment aimed at them doesn't affect you. You choose to include yourself in feeling oppressed, but there's apparently no reason to.

    And if you feel that you've been a victim of this ... ah ... bigotry at this board, you might want to consider whether you were reading that person correctly. And then, once you've done that, you might consider whether that "bigotry" is reactionary in relation to your own inherent set of bigotries.

    After all, we're all bigots in various ways. But some of us admit it. Some of it's inherent in the way we are taught to believe, and those are the hardest to overcome. But it's possible to pick those issues from the pile.

    Now, perhaps it is that you feel yourself a victim of bigotry because you don't ally yourself with the central Christian body. But it's a guilt by association you have to learn to live with, or else start yelling in the "church's" ear, and get the rest of the so-called Christians to stop irritating the rest of society senseless with their BS legislation, hateful social perspective, and that wonderful ability of the church body to inhibit its own realization of its own goals.

    So if you're not of the church, yet you defend the church ... well, what's the situation? Hmm? I mean, you'll defend their actions based on principle, which associates the principle to the action, and then you decry that association and its perpetual ripple-effect.

    It's like the "church" opposition to the Big Bang and evolution--certes a number of church organizations have come around to their senses and attempted to view God in that new context, but the church organizations only come around to that context by necessity--when the doctrine no longer reflects the universe.

    You know, infidels--disbeleivers, Satans--whatever you choose to call the people who don't share your fellowship with Christ .... What are we supposed to think when all we see as an example of Christ's ministry on Earth is chaos and paradox?

    In Western history, you have to reach back to Rome before we can see Christians oppressed by anyone but other Christians.

    So what I'm wondering is: how do you arrive at your assumption of bigotry?

    --Tiassa

    ------------------
    Take a side you say, it's black and gray. And all the hunters take the hunted merrily out to play. We are one, you say, but who are you? You're all too busy reaping in the things you never sown. And this beast must go on and on and on .... Nobody gives a damn. (Floater; "Beast")
     
  18. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    tiassa,

    Perhaps I'm reading you wrong but, it seems apparent to me that you DO feel oppressed and you react with a malice of heart towards an entire group and individuals who dare to call themselves "Christian" because of your "feelings" about a "label" without respect for the uniqueness of the individual. Who was it who you believed oppressed you by telling you that you couldn't buy a certain record or that you couldn't sleep with the person that you are in love with? Was it me? No. Was it someone else on this board? I don't think so. It seems to me that you have decided to be intolerant of people who call themselves "Christian" because you believe that, by virtue of their spirituality, they have aligned themselves with a social enemy which you have stereotyped in your mind.

    Yes, there are many people who make moral judgements about certain behaviors, Christians and non-Christians alike. Yes, it is unfair and bigoted to be intolerant of individuals and to lash out at them as a perceived oppressor with nastiness and disrespect using demeaning and derogatory language with anger and hatred of heart because they call themselves something which one has stereotyped the meaning of in their own mind.

    My discussion with Skye was not about feeling oppressed, though. I was pointing out to Skye that one having a disbelief in Jesus Christ and discussing it in a respectful manner in an atmosphere conducive to a free exchange of ideas does not equate to hatred. It is the cancerous, outspoken bigotry aimed at Christians which is prevelant in the actions and words of some on this board and which is being condoned by many on this board which can be equated to hatred. There is a difference. I have asked you this question a number of times, however, I don't believe that you have ever responded... Are you able to see the difference?


    [This message has been edited by truestory (edited January 14, 2000).]
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    Truestory--

    It's a simple idea: At no point in my life have I come across an outspoken Christian whose actions matched the message. I have met very godly people in the sense of Christian principles, but "Christ" as a name for God seems to have become a convenience--no need to learn a new name.

    In fact, my experiences among Christianity have demonstrated it little more than a thin veneer of psychological absolution. This I find sad. It's a great gig. But the fact that it sounds like a great gig doesn't mean I'm going to take part in a losing cause. Here I'll paraphrase Bill Maher: "I would love to be a Christian, if only THEY would first." No matter what Christianity proclaims as its message, it has always betrayed that message. That's part of the reason the history is important. But pay no mind to such irrelevant notions as identifying whether the perception I hold of Christianity is based solely on my contemporary station, or if that perception is legitimized by the course of the Christian ship.

    So, in that sense, how can I possibly "object" to events like the Crusades or the Inquisition or the bloody property-fight-in-the-name-of-God at Salem, Mass? I don't expect Christians or the Christian body to do a whole lot differently from the savage cultures they antagonize. But it's almost ridiculous--no, skip almost, it is ridiculous--that Christians don't seem to want to consider this history. If it's true that Christians walk a better path, it seems they should walk it. It isn't that they're engaging "sin", but that they're reveling in it. But you discredit history so it's hard to demonstrate to you how people acting--well-intentioned--in a "Christian" mode have set up the very snares they fight. The War Against Drugs is like that. Nobody was directly banning drugs for Christ ... but show me a politician in this country that wasn't of the Judeo-Christian philosophy in the 1930's. In return, I will then show you a politician who had nothing to do with the Marihuana Tax Stamp Act of 1937, who had nothing to do with busting opium houses because it was a chance to rail against the Chinese, and whose only guilt in the War on Drugs would be that they would have voted for the Stamp Act if they'd had the chance. That's the connection that you refuse to even consider, much less recognize. The product of a culture whose primary religious conscience is invested in Christianity horrifies me. Of course I don't want to jump on the bandwagon. Sure, individual Christians have their own consciences and moral perspectives ... but the point of Christianity in modern American culture seems to be to object to the legitimacy of other ideas. Be it sex, drugs, free expression, public regard for religion, privacy, crime prevention .... After all, show me a Muslim or Wiccan or Jewish idea exercising as much power over public policy as various individual Christians have enjoyed .... Period. We'll talk about those faults, really.

    And all of this you object to because it might eventually demand that you modify your comfortable version of God ... and you think people are being bigoted when they're hearing the same tripe they've always heard?

    You know, Louis Farrakhan has never really caused me, personally, any trouble. The Synagogue in town has never rallied its political muster to crush freedom in any of the places I've lived. Never has a Witch challenged my freedom. But Christians? I remember the day I could no longer buy a heavy metal album because of its religious content. WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I HELD RESPONSIBLE? Perhaps the morons who said ... "This album offends my religious beliefs. Therefore I'm exercising my freedom of speech to try to force you to shut up"? There weren't Rabbis or Shamans or High Priests of Set telling me I couldn't buy this album, or read this book, or see this movie because my actions somehow would offend their religious sensibilities.

    Rep. Bobby Moak (R), of Missouri, cited the Bible when he introduced a bill into the State Legislature that would punish drug dealers through amputation. The convicted could, of course, negotiate the extremity to be removed. Sure, he's only one person ... but this is among the best the philosophy has to offer? How about Newt "Contract With America" Gingrich, who signed his name to a bill that would execute anyone caught with two ounces of marihuana at the Canadian or Mexican border?

    Christianity as a whole has had two-thousand years to fix its problems. Individual Christians the same. That they have not is only my problem when it's in the ballot box, or when they seal the fate of the future by lying to their children. Instead its excuses, self-righteousness, and denial.

    I guess I don't want to vacation in Afghanistan because I'm a bigot. Actually, I just don't like governments that kill people for owning musical instruments. But I don't know enough of the Taliban to really know them, do I? So I don't know that they're not actually bad guys, and that the Devil isn't poisoning their reputation? And landing in the middle of a firefight ... well, the odds are usually higher than I'm willing to gamble on.

    That Muslims kill each other doesn't surprise me ... it's an old fight, and it's hard to settle issues that nobody remembers. Same for the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland. But it makes me a bigot, doesn't it, to dislike Saddam Hussein, whom I don't even know, because he's used mustard gas against children because they were the wrong religion. It's actually the same principle required for me to see the bigotry you're perceiving.

    There's actually two issues that I can address when it comes to how easily Christianity can rile me. First is the simple idea that I cannot subscribe to the religion because its sum effect does not reflect a positive net. Secondly, there is the unwillingness of Christians to reconcile that in their conversion attempts. Instead of meeting the doubter halfway and legitimizing each justification, Christians just yell "Praise Jesus" and spew a list of vagaries, threats, and proscribed sound bites. Sure, I don't want to be one of you. I don't agree with what it's given. But what really gives Christianity its offensive aspect is a complete lack of originality. Whether it's Inquisitions, encomienda, birth control, sexual orientation ... it's all sounds the same: It's right because Jesus says so, praise Jesus!

    You see, what I see as unfair about bigoted stereotypes of African-Americans is that "African-American" does not describe a set of behaviors, which are the basis of those stereotypes. Nor does Nigger, Negro, Darkie, or any of the wonderful slang words we've used to insult people for their skin color. However, where I have a problem with bigoted stereotypes about Christians is twofold: A) there's two-thosuand years of ill behavior as a precedent, and B) I'm waiting for the alleged stereotypes to fail on a general level. To hell with general, I'd settle for a perceptible change. I hold a rock. I drop a rock. It falls to the ground. Rocks fall to the ground. This, apparently, is a stereotype. Because that's the consistancy I'm talking about.

    Do you understand that your attitude actually reinforces the ideas that you consider bigoted? I mean, any time ideas are exchanged, the one constant message of Christianity is that if you don't agree, you're morally wrong. I mean, damn ... don't you think people get sick of that crap every once in awhile? But your faith--as you've expressed it--indicates that you don't seem to think you need to care. Yet you cry foul now?

    You know, in the long run, not being able to buy King Diamond's "Abigail" isn't that big of a deal. Besides, I bought it a couple of weeks later in Canada, and for less money.

    You know, in the long run, watching my Aunt kick her daughter out of the house for going to see 'Last Temptation of Christ' was actually kind of a revealing experience. I had never known the woman to be so downright nasty. And that attitude change had come after she was born again. It's a small thing, I admit. But so is a grain of sand. So we can discount this one, and this one, and this one, until there's no beach.

    You know, in the long run, listening to the family and friends speak of the dead, I couldn't help thinking that if someone hadn't been asserting Christian morality at the ballot box, these two wouldn't be dead.

    I like your cancerous bit. It's true from how I see it, too. A small hard spot in the soul of greater Christianity, ignored because of fear, spreads cell by cell, picking off individual soul after individual soul, until the idea is a tumor that threatens the whole.

    So I don't want the cancer. But that seems to invite threats and hostility collectively given in the Name of Love.

    And you dare cry "Bigot"?

    That's the other thing ... I see friends of mine lay into each other frequently. I do it too, from time to time. But we don't call ourselves victims. For instance, when I get into a fight with a black musician I know, we'll yell and roil through our discourse, and sometimes say ridiculous things. But never does he accuse me of bigotry. Why? Because he knows we wouldn't be at that level if we didn't agree in some way to go there. Thus we can throw "Angry Black Male Syndrome" and "Farmboy" back and forth without offense.

    But I've cried that foul in these posts, too. I even remember the first time I did. That one, I felt, was justified, but I think we would have eventually run into an argument whether there was an issue to be bigoted over. (I think that last sentence makes sense.)

    And the invective has been growing over a couple of months here, especially in the Religion threads. So it seems to me that, for some of the bigotry you perceive, the people generating it might commit the bigoted act of slamming the door on a Jehovah's Witness. And that's no worse than walking out on a bad movie you've seen seven times before. Some of that might be frustrations boiling over. I mean, did you catch that cussing spree in response to one of Flash's topics?

    On the one hand, I equate Christians in America crying "Bigotry" to Angry White Male Syndrome. But that, I admit is reactionary. Probably in both cases, since AWMS is a media condensation of a larger set of stupid justifications for dumb behavior. But the idea does spring to mind.

    But to be fair ... the crap is flying in all directions. So either way--and I thank the great American antibigot Dr. Leonard Jeffries for this one--it's all a matter of the grub calling the maggot white.

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    Something about "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone" comes to mind, but that's more of a good-advice thing to me.

    Something about glass houses comes to mind, too ... or maybe that was Bowie's "Glass Spider".

    Or little pink houses.

    But your claims of "outspoken bigotry" might well be drowned out by the voices of your fellow Christian soldiers. Onward, onward, ever onward. And the exchange never really evolves, does it?

    --Tiassa

    ------------------
    Take a side you say, it's black and gray. And all the hunters take the hunted merrily out to play. We are one, you say, but who are you? You're all too busy reaping in the things you never sown. And this beast must go on and on and on .... Nobody gives a damn. (Floater; "Beast")
     
  20. truestory Registered Senior Member

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    1,122
    tiassa,

    Can you grasp the concept that it was I, through the grace of God, who identified the bigotry on this board? I am not crying, I am not speaking as a victim and I am certainly not speaking for Christians in America. I was addressing an issue of behavior on this board which, if continued without knowledge and perspective of the motivating forces, would thwart any chance of advancemement in the discussion.

    You have your reasons which you believe justify the stereotyping of Christians the way you do. And, if one showed up at your door, sure, you might "react" by slamming the door in their face.

    Out of frustration, a person might slam the door in the face of the Jehova's Witness who showed up at their door. Yes, that might be considered a frustrational "reaction," especially if the Jehova's Witness repeatedly showed up at their door unexpectedly.

    However, that same individual "seeking out" a forum where Jehova's Witnesses are known to be with a pre-meditated intention of going there to slam the door in their face is quite a different scenario, don't you think?

    Believe it or not, despite the "popular" opinion concerning Jehova's Witnesses, there are those who are willing to open their home to them when they show up, to sit down with them and to actually listen to what they have to say without prejudging them based on popular social opinion. If they don't like the exchange or don't want to hear anymore of what the Jehova's Witnesses have to say, there are those who respectfully bow out of the relationship. If they are respectrul, they most likely wish the Jehova's Witnesses well and they close the door softly and get on with their lives. If they are respectful, they don't use the opportunity to spew all their pent-up frustrations about Jehova's Witnesses at these individuals. If they are respectful, they don't use the opportunity to call them mindless morons and such and they certainly don't stand there beating their heads against the wall.

    Are you able to understand the difference yet?


    [This message has been edited by truestory (edited January 14, 2000).]
     
  21. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    771
    Lori,
    LIES????????? LIES??????????? I have NOT
    lied on this board, FRIEND... You want me to come out and spill my guts on this board about personal things... that is NOT lying.
    I do not believe that I should have to tell crap about my life in order to make comments.
    No one else does this...yet you offord them
    that comfort of not having to do this.
    I think you should really think long and hard about this. There is a difference between sharing views and coming out and telling crap about someone..who has TRUSTED
    you...without their permission..that's just not right. Especially when I am not that trusting to begin with. The things which have happened in my life does not concern these people...nor should it. How would you feel if I came out and said things about you which you had shared with me???? You think I do not have a right to be upset about that?? I guess not.
    Let me remind you I have not done this..instead what I did was defend your ass in every way...telling them basically that they totally misread your intentions...ect..
    remember??????? You come out here and blab
    PERSONAL things about me....what's up with that????? I just don't get you..not at all.
     
  22. Micah Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    48
    Please forgive me if I have provoked any of you to feel so much anger and hostility. I dont claim to be anything but human; I hate to get into long debates of persuasive speeches. I do feel with extreme empathy and compassion, I am always inspired from the spirit within me. My prayers have been with you all since I discovered this forum. May Gods peace and blessings be with you all..LOL
     
  23. Lori Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,065
    Flash,

    You are a liar. Looks like your girlfriend was right about you after all, all of the belly-aching you've done to me about how pitiful and abused and persecuted your little butt is. No wonder you won't leave, apparently you were making it all up. You come out here and act like your spirit of truth is so wonderful and promote it to the hilt, telling of all of the love and peace. When come to find out, if you were to be honest and share absolutely ANYTHING, even the most trivial and minute part of your life OR YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THE BEINGS OF LIGHT with anyone out here (like you've been bending my ear with for a long time), they would know 110% without a doubt, that something must be terribly wrong with your spirit, cause I haven't seen one little trickle of love or peace from you and there is not one little bit of evidence in your mind or in your life to support it. I think that it's very two-faced and inconsiderate for you to come out here and do your peaceful little advertising campaign for the antichrist, and then be e-mailing me all of the painful, scary, heart-wrenching messages behind their backs, and you expect me to say nothing?????? You come out here and talk in your "rational" voice, and AT THE EXACT SAME TIME are emailing me hateful cussing fits of rage in all caps that conveniently they can't see? You come out here and lie to everybody about Jesus being some egotistical maniac and you being so happy about it? You expect me not to defend my Saviour? You want to conveniently lie out here about how miserable you've been? Oh, I know, you've decided to block out all of the misery for this one arguement we're having, but I'm talking about all of the misery that you've been e-mailing me about for a year. Do you remember now? Is this ringing any bells with you? You want to lie about your source for all of this BS that you spew out here? Fine. But don't expect to be my friend, and don't expect me to come to your aid the next time you're having your breakdown de jour. You don't come out here and spew my personal stuff? Well, I wonder why it is that you don't have to? Well, maybe it's because I'm not a liar, and I offer up the truth on a silver platter to anyone who asks for it, and often when they do not. Why? Because it's the truth, and I have nothing to hide. Everyone makes mistakes, oh yea, except for you. That's how all the rest of us learn, Flash. Maybe you should check into it sometime. Oh that's right, you don't need to learn anything. Your are currently being "programmed" to know everything you'll need to know to serve the antichrist just fine.

    I CAN NOT BELIEVE that post that you put out there regarding Christians and non-believers being friends. What a crock of shit. You want to be a friend? Well then, how about being a friend then? You think that I haven't been a friend to you huh? Well after this little outburst of yours, I'm sure that you've convinced everyone else out here that I haven't been as well. These guys out here must think I'm the devil himself after listening to the load of half-truths that you've fostered out here. Do you think that is being a friend? Let me just suffice it to say that you people have NO IDEA. I have been RIGHT THERE for her, EVERY SINGLE DAY for over a year. And I swear, I have never witnessed in my life a girl who is in soooooo much danger. In her personal life as well as spiritual life. THAT IS A FRIEND. I have held your hand and been there for you through ALL OF IT. EVERY LITTLE LAST SCARY, INSANE, VIOLENT, DEMONIC second of it, and I have been praying and fighting for your peace and salvation tirelessly for all of this time and offerring to help in any way I can including physically protecting you. Who else have you been able to turn to for help? NO ONE. Who else has been there for you? NO ONE. Who else have you been able to talk to about all of this crazy shit? NO ONE. And then you come out here and post that crap about Christians not being able to be friends with non-believers??????? WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST SPIT YOUR VILE UNAPPRECIATION RIGHT IN MY FACE????? Well, you may as well have.

    I'm going to tell you guys what pissed me off so bad about her, and you guys decide OBJECTIVELY (now there's a concept, Flash) if I have a right to be pissed or not. Are you aware of just how "up in arms" Flash is about our terrible awful God and how he killed all of those innocent babies in the flood? Yea, you know, the string in which 666 suggested that I was a wannabe baby-killer? Yea, that one. So she's suggesting here that she can not worship a God who is responsible for the death of children right? Well, this is how it is...The reason that God flooded the earth in the days of Noah, and it says this in the Bible all over the place if you don't believe me, is because in those days, people had allowed themselves to be genetically altered by Satan and his demons, just like they are today with regard to the aliens and the hybridization that is going on. It says that Noah and his family were the only ones left on the earth that were genetically pure, so if He wanted to ultimately save our lives and our souls, he would have to destroy the genetic manipulation which we had opted to perpetuate in some fashion. I also think that the mark of the beast will be a genetic manipulation that we agree to, and guess what? Yea, the apocolyse will immediately follow this change. What a coincedence. You would think that we would have learned something huh? Well, I guess that some of us have, and some of us haven't of our own volition. Now here's where it gets REALLY good....One of the MAJOR sources of information that I've used to reach these conclusions is low and behold, Flash's spirit of crap and her "beings of light"! Imagine that. THEY are the ones who told HER and in return she told ME that they would require a genetic change for those who wish to survive the upcoming cataclismic earth changes. These earth changes they claim are an evolution from a 3rd spiritual dimension to a 4th and therefore higher spiritual dimension. There will be a group of people (and these are her exact words) THAT WILL UNFORTUNATELY BE TOO CLOSE-MINDED TO SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO THE ALTERATION. THESE PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO BE REMOVED FROM THIS PLANET OR THEY WILL DIE. And this is the best part (in relation to Flash's abhorence of the fact that children will have to die). The whole time that she's been visited by these beings, she has been having sex with them. Spiritual sex, go figure. And she says that she knows that she has been pregnant with hybrid babies almost continually throughout the entire, and rather lengthly ongoing (by her own choice) "adventure". Stomach goes up, stomach comes down, stomach goes up, stomach comes down. Isn't that what you said Flash????????? How many times, Flash? How many babies have you produced with demons that God is going to have to take now Flash? 100? 200? When are you going to stop producing these damned babies (and I'm not cussing, for they are by their very nature)??????? So how in the hell, when you were out here spewing your hatred toward God and His killing of babies, did you NOT think it was relevant to enlighten these people out here listening to your vile filth, that YOU, yes YOU, are contributing to the EXACT same scenario that led to the necessary destruction of all of those babies lives back then????? I want to know how you decided that that was not relevant? And if you don't consider me a friend anymore, then fine. I do not want to be the keeper of your half-truths anymore. Go tell them to someone else, who is far less intelligent and forth-right than I am. You are a liar.
     

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