# The universe is a mathematical construct

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by Write4U, Dec 6, 2020.

1. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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It depends on your understanding of abstract mathematics.
Everything in the universe is a "pattern". Patterns are by definition mathematical in essence. Therefore, everything in the Universe has a mathematical aspect to it.

As Tegmark observes: "Most scientists recognize some mathematical properties to the universe. I recognize only mathematical properties.

This concept was originally developed by Eugene Wigner.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unreasonable_Effectiveness_of_Mathematics_in_the_Natural_Sciences

In a world where evolution is the self-organization and increasing complexity of patterns among relational values , what is the objection to the concept of mathematics as being an essential aspect to the universal fabric?

The common misconception is that therefore mathematics must be causal, but that is a false dichotomy.

Mathematics are not causal but are "guiding equations" by which reality is or is not allowed to express itself.

Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
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3. ### river

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You totally missed my point above .

What is the ESSENCE of this pattern in the Universe ? What are these mathematical patterns based on ?

5. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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no I did not. You are missing the point.
Logically permittive and restrictive interactions, based on relational values.

You may want to revisit my thread on Chaos Theory.

7. ### river

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You have missed my point , or ignored it .

What is the Essence of the geometry of the Universe ?

Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
8. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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No I have not. IMO, you don't quite understand the implication of what you are asking.
Mathematical. The concept and definition is contained in the word "geometry".
That is why mathematics is the language of the Universe. The proof lies in the pudding.

Why Math is the “Language of the Universe:”
https://futurism.com/why-math-is-the-language-of-the-universe-2

9. ### river

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Think again . Your not going deep enough . What is the ESSENCE of geometry of the Universe .

What allows mathematics to exist in the first place ?

10. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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Logic. Not Intelligence!

Better question is; "what allows the human symbolization of abstract mathematics", i.e. anything that studies the interaction between quantities, variables, structure, and change, is mathematics.

"
There is no simpler, more fundamental way of expressing the universe than through the basic ideas of equality and inequality, which in turn lead to the concept of quantification, which lead to the concept of value and numbers (to expressed levels of inequality), and once we have numbers, the rest of mathematics seems to bloom from all around us."

If you think there is no empirical proof, then again I direct you to read Chaos theory which is by all accounts the very beginning of universal existence, but from which regular (mathematical) patterns emerge spontaneously. This has been proven and is fundamental to the Theory itself.

11. ### river

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The Physical is the Essence of Geometry or Shape . The Physical is Fundamentally Three Dimensional .

You don't understand .

12. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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OK. let's keep this really simple. Can you visualize what the symbolic word "tree"represents. A physical thing, right?

What you are missing that this particular physical thing has a mathematical pattern, like so:

The word "physical" is only symbolic in the most general way, i.e. what difference does the word "physical" symbolize when referring to different physical things?

Is a rock equal to a flower? They are both physical things, no? Something is lacking in this equation, no?

All expressed patterns in Nature are physical, but each physical thing has it's own mathematical relational value to other physical things, which may be symbolized in several logical ways.

The word "tree" symbolizes a specific repeatable physical pattern, with very specific physical parameters as compared to other physical things with specific repeatable patterns and specific physical parameters, such as a mountain, no?

A tree and a mountain are both physical things, but are they the same? What sets them apart? Mathematics!

13. ### river

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What sets a Tree apart from a Mountain , is their physical make up . Which is what the patterns are based .

14. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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What's the difference between a physical pattern and a physical pattern?

p.s. "physical make-up" = "inherent relational value"
This has been explained several times now.

The word physical is meaningless unless it is assigned a relational value

15. ### river

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What the essence of both physical patterns are .

16. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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And those different essences of physical patterns are their relational values......sigh....

No matter where you start, where you came from, or where you are going in physics the single abstract logic that allows one to explain, quantify and qualify it all is mathematical in essence.

The physics are the "unfolded" mathematical patterns and values, to use a Bohmian term.

Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
17. ### river

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More than that , deeper than that . Relational Values are based on actions .

To the Universe mathematics doesn't matter . What matters is the actions and interactions between physical things .

Last edited: Dec 6, 2020

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Bullshit.
Mathematics lead us to predict and describe the orbital parameters of the planets.
Mathematics lead us to discovering the Higgs Boson.
Mathematics lead us to the discovery of Neptune.
Mathematics is the language of physics and the Universe.
Those are basic facts.

19. ### river

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But Mathematics did Not Create the Universe . Physically .

Mathematics describes the physical .

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More "so what?" moments.

21. ### river

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Don't understand .

22. ### Write4UValued Senior Member

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relational values are based on differential equations.
That's the point, the actions and interactions between physical things are permitted or restricted by their relational values.
Mathematics is everything. Mathematics is the implacable quasi-intelligence that is so often mistaken for the "hand of god".

Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
23. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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Stop with the quasi-intelligence

Urban dictionary

TOP DEFINITION

quasi-intellectual

A person who merely appears to be smart.

Randy always wants to talk about Plato. It seems like he doesn't know much about anything else (or Plato for that matter).

He's such a quasi-intellectual.

by tree pipit September 08, 2010

At least Randy has some intelligence to try and upgrade

The Universe has NO intelligence including no quasi