The universe is a mathematical construct

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by Write4U, Dec 6, 2020.

  1. river

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    Yes .
     
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  3. river

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    From post#168


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    My point made . Abiogenesis , Life .
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    No. The universe is not a living object.

    It is a mathematically guided (deterministic) dynamical pattern of varying densities, not a teleologically guided (goal oriented) function. You are still reaching for the metaphysical motivated designer.

    I like the concept of CDT, (causal dynamical triangulation).

    CDT
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_dynamical_triangulation
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Noooo ...... Potential for life is not life.
    • potential [ puh-ten-shuhl ]
    adjective
    1. possible, as opposed to actual: the potential uses of nuclear energy.
    2. capable of being or becoming: a potential danger to safety.

    noun
    1. possibility; potentiality: an investment that has little growth potential.
    2. a latent excellence or ability that may or may not be developed.

    Mathematics, Physics.
    a type of function from which the intensity of a field may be derived, usually by differentiation.

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/potential
     
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  8. river

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    Our Universe has Life .

    Galaxies , Quasars , is the Periodic Table . It has no life , no intellect , just energy and matter and mass . And their interactions with each other , in All Forms . However A Universe can exist without Life . But it will still be of a Physical Nature , a Periodic Table of its own .
     
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  9. river

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    An idea not from me but from Isaac Asimov .
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
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  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Actually we are familiar with fundamental energy, but it isn't a life form and it is not intelligent in the biological sense.
    If we visualize the universe as a geometric organization which stared as a condition of utter Chaos, then we can posit that all dimensions and patterns which emerged from chaos are mathematical in nature, i.e. not living or biological in and of itself, but with the potential to evolve probabilistically into biological and sentiently intelligent patterns like humans.

    IMO, by virtue of logic, consistent relational values are being processed by mathematical functions and may be defined as quasi- or proto--intelligent actions which through natural selection evolve into sentient intelligence at many different levels.

    The more I learn the more I discover that everything seems to communicate in some way.

    As mentioned before, inanimate object transmit data : "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". IMO that is a fundamental exchange of data and form of communication.

    Bacteria (very old organisms) already communicate chemically, as do many insects and animals via scent. Scenting territory is a form of communication.
    Single celled organisms and many plants communicate by touch (cilia)
    Many marine animals communicate via sonar. It is believed that whales pass on environmental conditions of their present locations and food sources.
    And human have Shakespeare.

    Really, everything that is affected by and responds to environmental pressures has a form of self-awareness and relationship with its environment. This relationship needs not be conscious as long as it produces a result. The concept of determinism is founded on this principle.

    Evolution over enormous spaces and time spans seems to produce mathematically ordered results (natural selection).
    Everything communicates by mathematical/physical means.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
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  11. Dennis Tate Registered Senior Member

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    Am I at all hijacking your discussion by leaving you with this quotation that I personally think is very relevant to this idea of the emergence of the universe seeming to be explained by complex mathematical ideas, theories and principles?


    https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...ew-theory-of-everything-is-the-same-old-crap/
     
  12. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Have at it. Different perspectives always add to knowledge of a subject. (Roger Antonsen)
     
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  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Only the term quasi- is the same in both expressions.
    Intelligence and Intellectual do not mean the same thing and cannot be used for an intelligent intellectual argument.

    Ever heard of a quasi-intellectual AI? No?
    Ever heard of a quasi-intelligent AI?
    http://www.laits.utexas.edu/~anorman/info.notes/cona/subsubsection3_3_2_2.html

    Maybe you may want to start using the term quasi-intelligence when speaking about AI...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
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  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yep, life is not necessary for a universe to possess mathematical properties and laws. Many planets in this universe are devoid of life. Still they faithfully follow their orbits around within the gravitational field of their sun. Universal mathematics exist regardless of the presence of Life.

    Question then becomes if God exists in an otherwise lifeless universe?
     
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  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    The universe does not need recording of duration or frequency or the dynamical mathematics that cause change, humans do!

    The universe does not use some mathematics, it is completely mathematical, based on relational values, processed via mathematical functions.
     
  16. river

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    Not the Physical ? .......it is the physical that guides the mathematics .
     
  17. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That guides Human mathematics. Universal dynamical interactions are guided by values (numbers) and mathematical processes (functions).
     
  18. river

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    No they are not .

    Dynamic interactions are because of the properties , environment of the objects envolved in any dynamical movement of objects .
     
  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes they are.
    What are the properties of physical stuff? Just stuff, or does the stuff have measurable values (numbers) and predictable (mathematical) behaviors when they interact?

    Just remember one a priori law of physics. Self-forming patterns emerge from chaos. Patterns are by definition mathematical in essence.

    The Markov process
    Summary
    https://www.randomservices.org/random/markov/index.html#

    Spatial and semantic regularities produce interactive effects in early stages of visual orientation
    Abstract
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/639385v1.full

    Except for mathematics.

    Identifying Patterns
    Relevant For...
    Arron Kau contributed
    Part of the group of naturally occurring "exponential functions"
    https://brilliant.org/wiki/identifying-patterns/#

    If we can describe regular patterns of relational values being processed with algebraic functions, it means they exist in the abstract as potentials and occur as physically expressed phenomena in our reality as an essential property of universal spacetime geometry.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  20. river

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    Write4U ; response

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    Physical core . The properties of atoms , the periodic table . Is more than just stuff .
     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    In itself a meaningless term.
    Atoms have mathematical patterns with specific relational values and atomic weights (mass) and consist of three fundamental quanta having positive, negative or neutral charges.
    It's the mathematical properties that gives stuff it's physical values and dynamic interactive abilities.

    Lets stop running around circles, shall we. Physics is meaningless without mathematics as much as space is meaningless without time or time without space.

    Physics is the basic physical science.
    https://www.britannica.com/science/physics-science

    Check out the Glossary of Physics and see if it deals with patterns of relational values and mathematically functional processes.
    Those are the observed recorded properties of spacetime and events within it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_physics
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
  22. river

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    All based on the physical .
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Ok, if that's where you want to stay, is ok by me. But you are not an atheist, are you?
     

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