The US House "Representatives" says NSA Spying... here to STAY

You don't think the United State's regulates Federal Reserve Bank Notes? The United States Federal Government is not directly and indirectly influencing the value of the USD?!

Ha!

You're going to try and make the case the United States Federal Government in no way regulates it's own fiat currency? You've literally gone off the deep end.



I think the best option for the USA is legal, peaceful, state successions. It's a Win-Win if you stop and think about it. Then people who like to work hard and prefer private community engagement and private community social institutions to provide social services can live in states organized as such and you progressive socialists can be walled-off into a Socialist's State Paradise where there was 50 years of unbroken Progressive Democratic policies/demagoguery to help the poor: Detroit.

Done and Done.

 

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Why would an orderly transfer of power to new states make your pipe dream so. now Secession would but not succession. and detroit is what is because of capitalism not socialism.

 

Calculated violence: Numbers that predict revolutions

 

I didn't say it would happen, I said that would be the best option. What will happen is a slow normalization of people to a very low standard of living with very little chance of getting ahead.

As for Detroit, the Detroit Public School Teachers are some of the highest paid Public Servants in the Nation. They graduate Public Schooled students with a 47% functional illiteracy rate. That has nothing to do with "Capitalism". Any child can learn to read, it doesn't require much more than a chalk board and chalk to learn to read and write. Democrats have had 50 years of unbroken wins in the City of Detroit. Across that time, Detroit went from having the highest standard of living, to the lowest. It's now a shit-hole.

Don't worry, the Detroit Show is coming to a theater near you.

 

Interesting, given that argument was made by Thom Hartman, a far left progressive.

 

Not directly, no. Indirectly of course, they put a lot of effort into that - but influence, let alone indirect influence, is not regulation.

And none of that has anything to do with regulation of the US debt-based derivatives market from 2000 until 2009, which was basically nonexistent.

Uh, yes it does, actually - if you bother to look up what happened. Detroit was a one industry town, a sort of company town writ large, and everything that happened in Detroit pivoted on that fact.

And a lot to do with racism, of course, despite the nonexistence of race according to some racists. Those nonexistent black people fabricated an identity and bid fair to burn the place down back in the day, with concerns over its governance that were never addressed, as it turned out.

And a lot to do with the governance of the State of Michigan, which is what allowed the leaching of Detroit's productivity to its suburbs and exurbs and the draining of its economic support, abetted rather than curbed white flight and other racial problems, and generally - for racist and other bigotry dominated reasons as well as the self-interest of its rich and powerful - threw it away, let it be robbed and rolled and fall apart.

We've been living in the Texas show for a couple of decades, a change of pace might do us some good. I'll take Michigan over Texas any day, if that's my choice - as far as this thread, one benefit would be a rethinking of this rightwing authoritarian NSA surveillance operation: it came from Texas and plays well with Texans, not so much with Yoopers I'm thinking.

 

[video=youtube;v4z09el30f8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4z09el30f8[/video]

 

Your argument is that the US Federal Government does not influence the value of the USD? Further, you also maintain that forcing us to pay income tax in USD, also has no affect on it's value? Is that correct? You do understand the POTUS appoints the Federal Reserve chairperson?

You obviously either do not understand what you're talking about or you do not want to have a serious conversation. I suggest you go back to chasing your tail while the 0.1% clean you and your family out. My advice to you is to start shilling for and eventually vote for Warhawk HillBillery. That'll show those GOP who's boss.

Oh, and the financial market is the most regulated market in the United States and in the World.

Note 1:
I do not find it surprising I am the one arguing for personal freedom and control over one's accounting units of wealth and labor whereas you OTOH are arguing for the gun. It's the way your generation was taught to think. Well, you're in luck most people think like you. Funny enough, that State gun - it probably isn't going to be pointed in the direction you "voted for", exactly the opposite I bet. When it does, think of it as karma.

Again, I am the one arguing for voluntarism. For private community. For Law, Private Property rights (starting with your body and including it's labor) and Sound Money. My argument is any group of humans can organize themselves to take care of the needs of one another - and do so without waving a gun in one another's faces. To resort to the gun, is everything Civilization is not. It's a return to the jungle. Changing the word 'stealing' to the word 'taxation' doesn't change the deed. AFAICS you OTOH cannot envision society not based on the gun and thus are shilling for the State. You're in luck! 99.999999999% of everyone else around you - think just like you (I'm so far down in the minority as to not be a blip on the error bar). Sure, they have different ideas on how to use that State gun, and who to point it at, but - they're with you on this whole use "State violence to get what you want" thing.

This is why I advocate only raising your children peacefully and simply having as little do with the State as is legally possible. Just limit your families exposure to the poison as much as you legally can, work within your community and live your life. The ship has sailed, it isn't turning around now.

Note 2:
Japan has plenty of cities with manufacturing industries, and while they've been through 25 years of Progressive Statism, and their cities are poorer, they certainly are not anywhere near a Detroit. It's not just about being a city based on automotive industry. It also about the destruction of Civilization in Detroit by 50 years of unbroken Democrat Progresive Demagoguery and Fascism.

So, we're now 5.5 years in as a Nation, feeling the Hope and Change yet? I do, $2.5 billion on a data centre to spy on Americans - there's some Hope. Billions of dollars of used and unused military equipment sent to our now Militarized 'Public' Police Force - there's some Change.

Let's see what the Federal Reserve brings us over the next 25 years. Hope you like what you see, we're going to keep getting more. Much more. You wanted the State to have the Gun, that was the only way wasn't it? Hope you like it, because we got it.

 

No. My "argument" was clearly stated as the exact opposite of that. I stated directly that the US government puts a great deal of effort into attempting to influence its currency, especially the exchange value of it. I insisted that the US government primarily influences, rather than regulating, its currency and the use of it. That was an observation of fact. I posted examples.

I used to think you just didn't know any history, philosophy, or economics; this is more basic than that: you don't know what the word "regulate" means.

All these months of posting stuff about the deregulation of the US financial system and its consequences (or Japan's failure to regulate their banks in the first place) has just blown by you like an invisible breeze. You don't have the necessary vocabulary.

 

Oh, good, then we agree that the USD is not a product of the free market - they are units of measurement manipulated by the Federal Government. US derivatives are priced USD, thus the Federal Government directly manipulates this market. It is NOT a free-market.

Nice to see you're starting to come to your senses a bit. Oh and the financial market is the most regulated market in the world - which is why it's a mess; because regulation doesn't work.

 

No, it doesn't. You have wisely dropped the word "regulation" pending further research by you into its meaning, but that does not exhaust your areas of unfamiliarity - "direct" as well as "manipulation" don't mean what you think they mean.

When familiar with the words involved, you can address the matter of a government attempting to manipulate the US debt based derivatives market by indirectly influencing some of the money supply in the national economy.

Obvious nonsense. This is not one of those things that becomes true if repeated often enough. You have to actually describe the regulations and their enforcement, and in this case specifically the regulations and enforcement pertaining to the US market in derivative financial products based on debt as it operated between 2000 and 2009.

 

You're the one who is attempting (and failing) to make the argument that the US Federal Government has no influence over the US Federal Reserve Bank Notes that serve as the fiat (by decree of the State) currency of the USA.

The argument you're making is the financial sector and CDOs are free-market, and they're not. The fact you can attempt to make such a ridiculous argument with a straight face shows you're simply not serious about this topic or an idiot.

You can continue to move the goal post all you like, but the fact is we do NOT live in a free-market capitalist society with sound money. We live in a fascist State with a fiat currency and labor tax. This is a fact.

The financial sector is the most regulated market in the United States and OCD are regulated by the State. This is also a FACT.

So, we have a highly regulated market, a highly regulated financial product, where all trades are by Law conducted using a State-backed fiat currency.

It's no surprize this highly Fascist socialist poo was eventually bailed out by the Federal Government and flushed onto the productive part of society - the private sector; ultimately the State will extract Labor Tax from the so-called "free" Citizens and their labor auctioned off by the "Too Big To Fail" Banks in T-bills and Bonds (no surprize there see ANY Socialist Worker's Paradise, examples: North Korea or Detroit).


Don't try to pass your Statist poo-burger off for anything other than exactly what it is.

 

For the third or fourth time, in plain English and in so many words, as a direct quote, I am arguing that the Federal Reserve influences the value of the US dollar.

I think you are actually dishonestly trolling, when you pretend not to have read that. There's simply no way you could have missed it.

My claim was that the debt derivative market in the US from 2000 until 2009 was so little regulated as to be essentially a free, laissez faire market. You have so far provided no evidence or argument that my claim is in the least doubtful. Yammering about the Federal Reserve money supply manipulations to the general economy is beside the point (the Fed itself has no regulatory powers over that market).

I made no claims about all of our society, but one notes that a free market capitalist society governed by a fascist State and employing a sound fiat currency is perfectly possible - there's no contradiction there -

and that the US does not levy taxes on labor, and has not since 1865.

You can repeat that all you want, but you have yet to provide evidence of this regulation, and it was easy for me to provide the names and dates of revoked regulations (Glass Steagall in 1999, etc) In addition, the derivatives market in the US included products denominated in a variety of currencies, mostly dollars of course (the free choice of the market involved).

 

Let me make this short and clear so as not to confuse you: We use a FIAT currency. It's created for us by our Central Planners at our Central Bank - the privately owned Federal Reserve and we are FORCED to use this to pay the State. Fascism is the legal merger of State and Corporation. A Fascist state is NOT a free-market. You're making the argument that State legalized Slave-labor is the same as 'free-market' Voluntary labor. They're not the same thing.

FIAT means by decree. Our monetary units are given value by decree of the State. Simple enough? A fiat State-backed currency is NOT the same as a free-market money. It's WHY we have to pay a Labor Tax (and it IS a labor tax - you labor, you're taxed on your labor).

Is any of this making through those decades of State schooling and decades of wasting your time watching MSM?


So, this isn't a problem of the "Free-Market", we don't live in a free-market, we're cattle on a Fascist State-run Tax Farm.


Too Big To Fail isn't POSSIBLE in a free-market. So, again, you can move the goal post, you can redefine, you can red-herring all day long, and at the end of that day we still live in a Fascist State not a free-market. The financial collapse was DUE to the State. The blame is ON THE STATE - it's only now reached a level of corruption where you noticed it because now YOU might be personally effected, but it's been corrupting for a century. Blame the State, not some imaginary non-existent 'free-market'.

 

O-blaaaah-ma appoints James Clapper (the Director Of the NSA - who outright LIED to the CONgress) as the "Indiepdant "Chairperson to oversee NSA Surveillance Review Group


This guy just walks up spits right in your face - and you love it. Hope and Change indeed. I honestly cannot wait to see all the little piss-ants running around parroting back MSM slogans for HillBillery in 2016. If Hiroshima taught us one thing, it's that it's better to have a Democrat drop a nuclear bomb on your city than run it: See Detroit. PLEEESE let the DemoCrips win the House, Senate, SCOUS and POTUS; no more excuses, let's sink this bad boy.

 

But we are not forced to use it to pay each other - free markets are easily possible using any medium of exchange mutually agreeable. A fiat currency works very well - better, in fact, than almost anything else.

Your closest approach to an accurate statement - and one of the reasons capitalists find fascist ideology so compatible with their agenda.

Who do you think has been governing Hiroshima, that center of politics and art and religion, since WWII? Clue: Not General Motors.

Detroit has been far more of a capitalistic free market town than Hiroshima. Of course it's completely irresponsible to focus on just one aspect - racism is right in the middle of Detroit's problems. But love of money is the root of a lot of evil, and contrasting Detroit with Hiroshima can teach us much about that.

Monopoly control of the necessities of life is essentially inevitable in an unregulated and purely capitalistic economy (we've known that since Adam Smith, but Marx usually gets the credit). Of course, you can allow anything to fail - if you're willing to take the hit.

I'm making the observation that fascism and capitalism - including unregulated markets, such as the US debt derivatives market 2000 - 2009 - fit together and support each other without strain or conflict. You can easily have both. That's why big industrialists and corporate powers have supported fascist governments all over the planet.

And that's why the large corporations of America view the NSA spying with equanimity, while frothing with outrage and throwing hundreds of millions of dollars int opposition over the prospect of paying taxes.

 

We are forced to use it to pay income tax, this gives the USD a tremendous advantage over any other 'natural' non-fiat currency. Much of that interest is used just to service and rollover the debt. As a matter of fact, it is estimated we'll be spending $1 TRILLION dollars a YEAR on interest to the "Too Big To Fail" banks that wrecked our economy by 2020. All of this because people can't see a future where humans *gasp* act Civil and interact voluntarily but instead opt to use the Vote and the Gun.

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