There is no heaven when the brain is unconscious

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Write4U, Nov 18, 2023.

  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Write4U:

    I appreciate that you tried to answer some of the direct questions I asked you previously. Your responses don't make much sense, but at least you tried. That's a step in the right direction.
    That makes no sense at all. Partial brain incapacity logically cannot be the same as total brain incapacity. I assume you're misreading Hammeroff and/or Seth.
    You're just stating your belief, again. You can't show that your claim is true. It's just one more claim you make that you pretend has sufficient evidence.
    This only says things about the physical brain and the observable personality etc. It says nothing about souls or anything like that.
    The effect of being under an anesthetic is not the same as the effect of being dead. Seth and you are both wrong. You can tell him from me.
    Soul: the immaterial part of a person. The actuating cause of an individual life.

    So, again: how do you know there is no soul?
    What's an OT?
    You think cell theory has explained life, along with the OT (whatever that is)?
    Sorry? Is this relevant to something?
    Great! That's the first time you have actually admitted that you don't have all the answers to something - that you don't know.

    Progress.

    Maybe there is hope for you, yet.
    I don't know who that is.
    I'm not sure how to answer. For instance, consider the three familiar spatial dimensions: up-down, left-right, forwards-backwards. Would you say that the up-down has access to forwards-backwards? What do you mean by having dimensions having access to one another?
    I have been under a general anesthetic before. It didn't show me that heaven doesn't exist.
    You shouldn't claim to know something is true on the basis of "there's no evidence to the contrary". You should, in fact, only believe things for which there is positive evidence.

    For instance, there's no evidence to the contrary that small jelly-like lifeforms exist in the sub-ice oceans of Europa. So, do you think you now know that those lifeforms exist there? It would be a mistake for you to think that.
    No. You're way off base, with that nonsense.

    The common theme to my questions was your knowledge. Over and over, I asked you "how do you know?" that various things you believe are true. You completely missed the point.

    I get the impression that you are content to just believe things, without appropriate justification. Questions about how you know what you know don't seem important to you. You just know what you know.

    This forum has seen a parade of people just like you, over its lifetime. People who are utterly confident about the truth of their own beliefs, but at the same time completely unable to justify them to the satisfaction of reasonable critical thinkers.
     
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    You are being silly. There is nothing wrong with that phrase. If you cannot make sense of it, it isn't my problem.
    Get it right. You are parsing!

    Heaven doesn't exist for that person!

    And from now on, if your post contains ad hominem I will not respond to it.
    You play nice or we won't play at all, understood?
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    And that is a meaningless statement. What exactly is an immaterial person and where does it come from?
    The "actuating cause of an individual life" ? Just because it is listed in Webster's doesn't mean squat.
    This is your claim now, so prove it!

    Here I'll give a good start.
    "Often believed to live on after the person's death." Yea, that makes a lot of sense.
    "Life after death", a new theory.
    Oh, no, it's a 2000 year old claim made by non-scientists, that has never been proved, right?
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Well, it is clear that you have not read Hameroff and/or Seth.
    If you had, you would know that homeostasis is a function of the brain but it is a sub-conscious function that is not affected by anesthesia.

    Exploring the concept of homeostasis and considering its ...
    It is a function of the brain, unaffected by anesthesia.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,970
    If you had started reading my post a little closer the first time, my responses would have made a lot more sense.
    No, you are projecting again.
    I said that anesthesia only affects the conscious part of the brain and that the effect on consciousness is the same as being brain-dead. Total oblivion, i.e. no emergent conscious thoughts, just like being dead.
    Anesthesia does not affect homeostasis, but that is an unconscious control function.
    No, I back up my beliefs with reason.
    As atheists we play in the same playground. Don't tell me that mathematics is my religion. It is your refusal to critique religion that makes you agnostic, not atheist. Apparently you believe what the bible has told you might be true. That makes you just an agnostic, you just don't really know anything about God, Heaven and all that unknowable stuff that is religion, right?
    What exactly is there to say about souls or anything like that?
    1. Oxford Dictionary
    1. Now that is an illogical position: "live on after death" is a contradiction in terms.
    2. If mathematics is the essence of spacetime geometry, then the Universe has a mathematical soul, no?
    What do you remember about being anesthetized?
    Webster's dictionary.

    Examples of actuating causes.

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    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-33990-y

    The above are examples of actuating causes. Are they examples of living systems?
    Like God, the concept of Soul is superfluous, unless you include the concept of a mathematical universe. Then the soul of the universe is a mathematical pattern and that is demonstrable.
    You have to be kidding? Never read the Old Testament?
    Yep, cell theory explains the evolution of dynamical systems into living systems. A cell is a self-organizing pattern of dipolar properties of biomolecules.
    And you do? I haven't heard you admit your limitations. Besides, I have never claimed to know everything. This is just another one of your projections.
    Indeed, instead of ad hominem, you are asking me to clarify. And we are making progress!
    I think you are beginning to realize that you have underestimated me a little bit, no?
    Don't know what OT means, never heard of Carlos Castaneda? What do you know about spiritual matters?

    I'm not sure how to answer. For instance, consider the three familiar spatial dimensions: up-down, left-right, forwards-backwards. Would you say that the up-down has access to forwards-backwards? What do you mean by having dimensions having access to one another?

    I have been under a general anesthetic before. It didn't show me that heaven doesn't exist.

    You shouldn't claim to know something is true on the basis of "there's no evidence to the contrary". You should, in fact, only believe things for which there is positive evidence.
    I know that those lifeforms exist. I can show you a picture.

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    Ice worm

    Genus of annelid worms

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    Ice worms are enchytraeid annelids of the genus Mesenchytraeus. The majority of the species in the genus are abundant in gravel beds or the banks of riverine habitats, but the best-known members of the genus are found in glacial ice. They include the only annelid worms known to spend their entire lives in glacial ice, and some of the few... and some of the few metazoans to complete their entire life cycle at conditions below 0 °C (32 °F).[5]Wikipedia

    OK, you tell me what angels and demons are.
    You are completely missing the point that when you ask "how do you know", I cite a scientific paper that addresses that question, but you refuse to read them and insist that I tell the story "in my own words".
    Then it is you who is complaining that I am offering too much supporting material. Read what I give you and you won't have any problem with the "meaning" of my posts.
    Obviously you haven't learned anything from my MT thread.
    I am not so sure about that "satisfaction of reasonable critical thinkers."
    More like the Inquisition. They were seldom satisfied. I guess they knew too much about the unknowable to fool around with mere mortal souls.

    In reference to information processing in cytoplasm and cytoskeleton and neural network.
    Collective behavior of oscillating electric dipoles (see microtubule thread)
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    19,970
    Well, lets see.

    What is the default mode network of self-referential processing?

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    Abstract. The brain's default mode network (DMN) has become closely associated with self-referential mental activity, particularly in the resting-state. While the DMN is important for such processes, it has functions other than self-reference, and self-referential processes are supported by regions outside of the DMN.May 15, 2016

    Mapping the self in the brain's default mode network
    ScienceDirect

    Highlights
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-33990-y

    OK, that takes care of self-referential

    If human intelligence is an emergent property of the neural network then one can argue that the neural network is quasi-intelligent (can't say proto-) in order to produce the consciously intelligent results.

    Now do the phrases "self-referential and "quasi-intelligent" make a little more sense? Just read what is meant by the compound definitions.
     

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