These aren't people.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Xmo1, May 17, 2018.

  1. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Nor did I intend the use of 'wrong'. You can safely assume that I'm not trying to say things I don't say.

    And you really should knock off the ego stroking. I get where Dr_Toad is coming from.


    Indeed! You made my point.

    If one wanted the public to believe something other than the facts immediately present, one would have had to state the narrative. We'd be getting the reporter's rhetoric and analysis.
    However, without the added rhetoric, examining just question and answer, the narrative doesn't need to be manipulated. It stands on its own.

    It seems we have a difference in tastes. You like your news filtered through someone's opinion. I like to go to the raw data so I can decide for myself.
     
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    No, it doesn't. Obviously - look at how it fooled you.
    The context is missing, the meaning and substance is from the context. You need to know something about Trump, and the question, and the context of the exchange, or you are likely to be played and manipulated and made a sucker of.
    Then you used it without competent intention. There was no fallacy in what you described, nothing that can be described as "fallacious". It's the wrong word.
    Join him in putting me on ignore, then - the thread would lose nothing of value.
    Nonsense. You, like most people, have neither the time nor the expertise to analyze raw data like that - even if you wanted to, which I do not believe for five seconds. There's far too much of it, and it's full of errors and deceptions and the like.

    This was illustrated here: You were misled by a very small amount of "raw data" pulled out of context, in a quite simple and familiar situation - Trump suckered you. You actually ended up thinking Trump was answering a question about MS-13, and referring to MS-13 in his response. You even objected to and attempted to alter more accurate reporting according to your miscomprehensions, on your confused assessment of Trump's response as an "answer" to a "question", neither of which you analyzed carefully.

    That is common in the inexperienced and ignorant when faced with raw data - it's the reason the profession of journalism exists.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
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  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    On this I agree. It had no value beyond post 2, where the context was provided.

    And again, you generalize. The raw data is nothing more than the actual words spoken leading up to Trump's response.

    I'm pretty sure you stand alone in somehow being convinced that the question being asked is not relevant to the answer being provided.

    But hey, if you want your worldview filtered through news headlines, more power to ya. You're gonna be astonished when you discover the internet.

    Again:

    "Pig!"
    TRUMP CALLS PEOPLE PIGS!
    "No, the question was 'name a farm animal'."
     
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  7. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    13,902
    What makes me laugh about all this... is that it is so painfully evident at just how successful the Wall Street and other Elites have been at making the rest of us plebes go at each others throats and blame one another for the problems we face due to their actions...

    Thank you for being a perfect fucking example of this.
     
  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Hey, I'm not.
    I can have a civil conversation without having to gaslight my opponent, or call them names.
    And I can provide context to a news item without having to beat down opposing viewpoints.
    Discussion can be animated yet still civil.
     
  9. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    13,902
    For clarification - I'm not referring to any singular individual - the thread, as a whole, is a great example of it in action. As a whole, the American Populace has, apparently, lost the capability of rational, logical, and non-emotive debate... no small wonder, then, that we're in the process of demolishing ties with our closest allies while simultaneously providing amazing economic gifts to hostile world powers.
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    27,125
    And you couldn't even handle that. So your claims of preferring raw data in general - you were the generalizer here, not me - are clearly fantasy.
    No further context was provided in post 2, except another report to set alongside the one.
    The exchange was repeated, instead, with a link.
    I said no such thing. I said the opposite, even.
    Where and why do you think you are getting so badly confused?

    How is it that you are unable to follow these discussions - that you still have no idea, for example, what the context of that Trump exchange was? That you have not read what people have posted?
    You apparently cannot provide context for this particular news item at all. You seem unable to comprehend what it would be - even after being provided with suggestions. And you have spent much of your time here attempting to beat down viewpoints based on that context. So - - -
     
  11. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    How would you know that, kitta? Clairvoyance, or just malformed knowledge and opinion?

    As far as I know, no one can judge that from afar, or even close by.

    Ever heard of propaganda? Besmanov? Parse all you like, mate.

    iceaura the troll, the logorrheic imbecile, presumes again to know what other people really meant, or that they're confused by your pearls of wisdom.

    Not a clue...
     
  12. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    13,902
    I'm guessing you're not versed in economics enough to understand what happens when we offend and push away our closest allies/trading partners and send them to other, cheaper sources... but I'll give you a hint: It doesn't help us.

    We've been here before. Several times, in fact... it's ended the same way every time.

    Clairvoyance isn't required - just basic intelligence and the ability to read a history book.
     
  13. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    2,527
    Our closest allies, eh? Like the UK, who will soon be a Muslim nation in which Christians pay the Jizya. Oh, wait, y'all are doing that already. Jailing people who disagree? Nice.

    Is MS-13 OK with you? Would you prefer to never be able to walk around London without being stabbed randomly? At least here the gangsters know better than to operate freely without consequence. Especially in our rural areas. They want the dregs from the cities to pay for America's great sins.

    Since you mention history, would you venture a guess as to which nations made the most profit from slavery, selling most to the Caribbean nations?

    No? Try England, near the top, you hypocrite. Don't preach to free men.
     
  14. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    13,902
    First - MS-13 actually originated in Los Angeles in the 80's, and fully a third of their suspected membership is in the US itself.
    Secondly, the fact that you are attempting to establish a connection between MS-13 and Islam is as entertaining as it is fallacious -


    https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-02-23-gang-salvador_x.htm

    But, sure, keep buying into your fear-mongering propaganda.
     
  15. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    14,322
    Nope.

    They started in LA. Would you rather be in an LA house full of MS-13 gang members, or in London?
     
  16. spidergoat Venued Serial Membership Valued Senior Member

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    You want to paint all immigrants as the worst gangsters possible, when most of them come to the US to escape gangsters and warlords. It's no different than Hitler painting Jews as communists working against the homeland. Don't you see that?
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    18,377
    Do you honestly consider yourself free?
    Locked away with your weapons, guarding your fortune jealously, having to fight off the hordes of starving malnourished children crossing the border?
    Do you call that freedom?
    Living in the constant fear that someone less fortunate may come along and brutally take it all from you.
    Freedom eh? what a joke....
     
  18. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    13,902
    It's what the GOP and others like them tell him freedom is... and he and many others buy it hook, line, and sinker.
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    In theory, sure.

    The problem, of course—

    —is that there is no logical way to appeal to the larger context while demanding contextual constriction in order to keep it small enough for your needs, such as to remind that there just isn't any way to be a civil bigot.

    You said larger context; others took part; you said it can't be that large. So, no, your opinion might not be disqualified for being foreign, but it is, however, disqualified for being ignorant and uncivilized. Toward that latter, we'll just stick with #31, when context was provided.
     
  20. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ///
    They've lost it??????? When the heck do you think the American public had that capability???

    <>
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  21. Kittamaru Never cruel nor cowardly... Staff Member

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    13,902
    There was a time, long ago... when Americans were still pioneers in the arts and sciences, leading the way in new and innovative technologies.

    Unfortunately, the birth of ultra-capitalism destroyed all that; the loss of a long-term vision in favor of short term profits...
     
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  22. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    ///
    Some Americans were pioneers in arts & science. Many of those were immigrants, Tesla, for 1 example. Some US inventions were developed from inventions, theories & ideas from other countries.
    Very much of the American populace has never cared about art or science.
    As a whole, the American Populace has, apparently, never had much capability of rational, logical, and non-emotive debate. Most people cannot think rationally & there is much evidence in history that has never changed in the US or any other country. The vast majority of people have never understood what logic is. Most people are ruled by emotion & always have been.

    <>
     
  23. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    1,270
    americans dont want americans to win if it means they come second.
     
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