This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Greatest I am, Nov 27, 2016.

  1. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    We Gnostic Christians see Jesus as an archetypal good man myth.

    You are correct that anything written in scriptures are either lies or myths that should not be read literally.

    A literal miracle working Jesus as described in the scriptures never existed as far as I am concerned.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  3. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Everyone who can read and think for themselves already know this.

    I prefer to show how immoral that God is by analysing what believers believe are true words from their holy book.

    If you think your idea worthy, start an O.P. on it.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  5. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    So wright more clearly.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  7. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    You have to differentiate between the mythical God and the only God you can know. Yourself.

    The mythical God of war is stuck in his ways.

    We are not if we choose not to be.

    Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
    If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
    Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
    [Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
    But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

    As to the world. Fear not. It knows how to look after itself even if man goes extinct.

    Regards
    DL
     
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  8. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    If God is not our servant, then he is our master the way most theists think he is.

    Do you recognize a God? Are you God's servant or God's master?

    Regards
    DL
     
  9. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    ???

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

    What, if not mortal measure, is the bible asking us to use to test ideas?

    Regards
    DL
     
  10. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    Yet before Christians and Muslims became idol worshipers, the intelligent ancients were closer to atheists than theists.

    http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

    The badly formed arguments, when they bother giving one at all, comes from theists who hide good arguments behind a supernatural shield which kills any of the goodness within it.

    Regards
    DL
     
  11. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

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    I agree, yet Christians love God all the more for his genocidal ways.

    So much for love your enemy.

    Regards
    DL
     
  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    4,011
    Well, the Bible, inasmuch as I give it credence, is not telling us to use stuff to test anything; it is supposedly literally God's wishes, in written form.
    So, if it says I turned her to a pillar of salt, then that's God saying 'I get to do that. Follow my laws.'
     
  13. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    4,150
    I can show you a miracle, if your not a human being. Have you ever seen a tree glow.
    My nature is omnipresent. I am learning the will of power, the power of free will which is capability. When the tree glows your seeing an aura or essence of a nominalistic nature like time, hope, or science, and the tree glows.
     
  14. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    What is your native language?
     
  15. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Deepity???
    I have seen many a glowing tree.
    During the bush fires at night many are glowing.
    Did not notice any of the other stuff you mention however.
    Alex
     
  16. wellwisher

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    4,864
    You begin with basic principles and test the validity of things based on those principles. As an analogy, say you went to a magic show and the magician is levitating his lovely assistant. A basic science principle would be to assume gravity is in affect on the stage. If you stick to the basics, this is an illusion this going against this basic principle. Therefore you try to unravel the mystery, based on firm footing of what you know to be real and true. You can't just believe and buy into things, just because your eyes appear to see. Once the herd accepts illusions, things like prestige and peer pressure can make it harder find the truth; Emperors new clothes.

    One atheists magic trick, this topic brings up, is blaming evil on God. In tradition, Satan was in charge of the earth. The evil attributed to God, metered out on humans, actually comes from Satan. Satan is the original rebel against God.

    2 Corinthians 4:4 New Living Translation (NLT)
    4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

    In this passage the herd sees the lovely assistant levitating and begins to believe anti-gravity is occurring on stage since they all see this with their own eyes. They don't know enough to go back to basic principles like 2 Corinthians 4:4.

    In the Old Testament book of Job, Satan is God's left hand man; chief of staff. He has God's ear and gets God to inflict all types of bad things onto Job, as a test of his faith.

    Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

    7And the LORD said unto Satan, From where come you? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.

    8And the LORD said unto Satan, Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a blameless and an upright man, one that fears God, and turns away from evil?

    9Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Does Job fear God for nothing?

    10Have not you made a hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he has on every side? you have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions are increased in the land.

    11But put forth your hand now, and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.


    12And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he has is in your power; only upon himself put not forth your hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
     
  17. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    2,228
    So who did you say witnessed this such that they could write down what the Lord said to Satan or is this just more made up stuff.
    Talk about working out the element of a trick and you fall for made up stuff without question...
    Alex
     
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  18. Great Old One Registered Member

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    87
    I'm an odd person but I suspect more likely is that you're about to try to burn a strawman.

    No, it isn't. However, trying to figure out why you think it is would be a complete waste of time so I think we should just let that go and move on.

    I've already stated I believe that I don't think there is a defensible version of a good God. Nobody has offered one. That's why there are such a things as formulations of inductive arguments of evil. It looks like God is probably evil.

    God, as a ground for being, is metaphysically necessary and unfortunately for us all that nature is also apparently evil. I understand that many people would like to see a divorce between a conception of "evil" and the human condition itself but while that might allow God to be defined in some sense which was not evil it would also mean that good and evil are not relevant to mankind...and thus the nature of God would be not relevant to mankind.

    This seems like an unhelpful attempt to branch into meta-discussion whereby you seek to insult myself or my mother...or else branch into an off-topic discussion regarding free-will.

    I decline your kind offer to indulge your curiosity with a substantial answer beyond noting that it's not relevant to the discussion as free-will cannot save a fairly applied moral evaluation against God.

    If you suspect otherwise in regards to free-will then it would be up to you to establish.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    11,671
    I have seen trees glow but I'm also a human being, so I'm not sure if this applies to me. (It was not due to any miracles, though.)
    Or are seeing a fire, or a string of lights, or a lot of fireflies who have decided to land there.
     
  20. C C Consular Corps: "The backbone of diplomacy." Valued Senior Member

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    1,625
    As the cosmogenic principle concerned with spawning and regulating existence in general, the "Father" component of the God tripartite might be prior in rank to judgements of good and evil. Much as scientists would feel ridiculous assigning such culture-emergent properties to the mechanistic, indifferent or amoral processes of the universe.

    The "Son", OTOH, was embodied in human form and thus very much susceptible to the properties of the cultural stratum. Whether the "Son" was merely the concrete avatar of the generalized Father or was always a fully distinct agent in the divine family is anyone's guess, when interpreting the Biblical mythos. Either way Jesus apparently served as a sympathetic mediator between mortals and the uncompromising demands of the machine-like Almighty. The former able to take into account contingent circumstances and pay the debt for them. Which via the bounds of its nature were impossible for the the latter to acknowledge, mitigate, or repeal.

    The "Holy Spirit" apparently served the function of fertilizing and gestating devout believers for apotheosis at a later date (following end-time resurrection, after the millennium of peace, etc -- whatever / whichever). IOW, facilitating their eventual conversion into immortals, gods or demigods themselves; as well as assisting their adherence to a "path of salvation".
     
  21. Great Old One Registered Member

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    87
    If the "Father" is beyond value judgements while "The Son" embodies morality...then it seems to entail that goodness is not part of God's substance as the two are said to be consubstantial as parts of the trinity. That would seem to be a big problem for traditional theists who like to claim that we know God exists in part by knowing he must be entirely good...as good is a great-making quality any maximal Being would have.

    That also makes God's moral prescriptions for mankind impossible to sell aside from adopting divine command theory.

    That, of course, terminates in a moral nihilism whereby good/evil have no meaning and you become aware of your existential struggle against an all-powerful and inhuman Being of cosmic horror who threatens you with eternal torture lest you obey His otherwise meaningless commands.

    ...which can be fairly described as evil.
     
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  22. C C Consular Corps: "The backbone of diplomacy." Valued Senior Member

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    And similarly, affective people can waywardly conceive the passionless activity of a cosmos rigidly unfolding according to the orthodoxy of its lawful-like generalizations to amount to an evil of pitiless neglect when it clashes with our level of biological consciousness.[1]

    All the more challenge for any god purported to be handling that basement stratum -- it can't be expected to have anymore humanity than the zombie brain-stems of walking dead. Whether a group chooses an occult face or nature's faceless version for the world's collective patterns of predictability / order -- they can't force the round peg of different level anthropomorphic and cultural properties into the square slot of the former. The machine-like relentlessness or methodicalness of its progression is a difficult challenge to obscure or make excuses for.

    The Christian gentiles at least have their adopted, quasi-rehabilitated savior / deity. They would be best to resume that rehabilitation program after its 2000-yr interruption, as well as some retroactive revision. Rather than wasted efforts trying to salvage and retcon the hopeless Hebrew predecessor and its background mythos. Sever all the ties to the latter in the religiously correct update.

    Humans invent the standards of their beliefs and systems to begin; they can bloody well reset them when circumstances warrant. Both theists and non-theists seem to have their befuddled moments when they literally act as if their prescriptive practices fell in flaming glory from an objective On High rather than oozed out of their own pens or keyboards. I suppose that's the inevitable result of hand-me down customs and formal guides for operation. The origins may become vague or forgotten, acquire a mysterious aura, and then achieve sacred status (i.e., "Do not tamper with or modify!").

    - - - - - - - -

    [1] Steven Crane: A man said to the Universe, "Sir, I exist!". "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not aroused in me a sense of obligation".

    Steven Weinberg: The more the universe seems comprehensible, the more it also seems pointless.

    Richard Dawkins: The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.
     
  23. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    4,011
    Agree. We'll consider that a retraction of post 98.


    Of course it isn't.

    It's an attempt to understand the rationale behind your logic that being given the "gift" of life should be regarded as evil, since the gift is not eternal, and may only last a billion years.

    To wit:
    "His Darkness kills all people. No exceptions. No matter what good you create it will eventually become an evil through privation. "
     

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