This is interesting (Sex differences)

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by visceral_instinct, Mar 7, 2010.

  1. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/why-boys-need-barbies-and-girls-need-footballs/article1335747/

    Basically, she argues that there are some subtle differences, but that they get excessively magnified by social conditioning.

    I'd have to agree with her. Clearly there are some differences, simply because we have different sets of sex hormones fucking up our brains, but the overly polarized view in which men = warrior/hunter, mathematical, visual-spatial, cold and hard and that women = nurturer, empathy, emotional sensitivity, people reader is far from consistent with reality.
     
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  3. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Wait until you have some kids. If you have both boys and girls you'll see that they're quite different from day one.
     
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  5. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    One - neither I nor the author of the book are claiming they're not different. What she says and I agree with her is there are some differences but they get radically magnified by socialization.

    Two - Your kids are not everyone's kids.

    I wasn't especially interested in girl-typical toys - I sometimes played nurturing games with baby dolls but it certainly wasn't my main focus. I was more into doing things like making Lego structures and having my dolls go 'mountain climbing' on them (and stealing my brother's Land Air and Sea set - I loved complex 3D structures, hehe). No, I do not have Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia.

    My sisters were similarly 'neutral' - they liked some girl stuff, some boy stuff, and some that didn't fit either category.
     
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  7. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    I can buy your personal experience - there are always exceptions to the general rule and sometimes very large numbers of them.

    But I have a strong hunch that her conclusions are biased - she may well have also been one of those little girls who played with Leggos and the like.

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    The reasons I have for being suspicious of her findings (besides having raised kids of my own and observing dozens and dozens of others is twofold: First is all those hormonal differences you mentioned and also the striking physical dissimilarities of males and females.
     
  8. Pinwheel Banned Banned

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    I cried until about 10....
     
  9. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    I disagree. At least in modern Western nations. If anything, I think we minimize the differences.
    Of course not. But that experience (seeing a number of children grow from infancy on up) is quite striking and the gender differences pop up immediately. Of course, I also had other opportunities to observe children. For instance, in college I did some substitute teaching. Also, as a doctor and a parent I talk to many other parents and pretty much all of them agree with my assessment.
    There are exceptions to every rule, especially when dealing with human beings.
     
  10. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    Why would the physical differences make for proportionally different neurology?

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    Sorry, I don't understand...

    Do we, though? The differences in treatment are subtle and people can treat kids differently without even realizing it. For example people handle babies differently depending on whether they think they are a boy or a girl. They tend to treat girls as if they are very delicate, but handle boys a bit more roughly and playfully. (There was a study that showed people behaved differently towards babies depending on whether they were told the baby was a boy or girl, but I can't find it...)
     
  11. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

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    Compared to what? I suspect that biology alone gender would make average little girls and boys psychologically different but even ultramodern westerners are not raising children in a gender role free environment. This is especially true if there is a TV in the house. Gender roles may be more flexible than they were in the past but a little girl or little boy trying to learn gender roles will have not shortage of information about expected gender behaviors to condition herself or himself with.
     
  12. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    But how can you know how much or how little these differences are magnified or diminished by socialization without experimenting? Did you read the story I linked about David Reimer before?

    http://www.infocirc.org/rollsto2.htm

    That was an unfortunate experiment of a boy being raised as a girl. It is only one case, but I think it's quite telling.
     
  13. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    I agree that society does magnify these differences. Take "cute". Both boys and girls like cute things. BUT, boys are supposed to not like cute to much and girls are supposed to really like cute cuddly things.


    What can this lead to... Adults dressing like THIS!

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    hahaha.... Japanese have a huge fetish for "cute". And they love to exaggerate the differences between girls and boys.






    That all aside, there's some interesting neuroscience on the female brain and how it functions and is anatomically slightly different than men. One classic example is that females use their brains more symmetrically than men.
     
  14. kenworth dude...**** it,lets go bowling Registered Senior Member

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    because the sex he identified with did those things,not because shaving and wearing a particular cut of cloth is present at a genetic level
     
  15. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    ? Yes, I agree with that. But he identified with his genetic sex, not the one his parents were attempting to raise him as. Even though he looked like a female, and was being treated like one.
     
  16. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Weeeeelll, men do have greater physical strength n' stuff.

    Wagnerian phenotypic modularity ain't postulated for kicks.
     
  17. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Did anyone besides me actually read read the article in the OP?? I mean really read it - paying attention to ALL the details??

    The woman that wrote this book is a neurobiologist, for Pete's sake!! And there's absolutely NO mention of her having the first little bit of credientals as a psychologist - not even a hint. And a neurobiologist is NOT a psychologist by any stretch - look up a neurobiologist and see what the qualifications are. To assist you in this, here is one link but there are also many more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience

    Plainly put, the subject she has written about is outside of the field she has trained for. She may do excellent work INSIDE her field (I've no idea either way on that) but she's overstepped her bounds with this book.

    There is also NO mention in the article about a formal study being done that led her to this conclusion. In other words, while slightly interesting, there's nothing here but her OPINION - nothing more. And as I've just pointed out, it's an uninformed, unsubstantiated opinion by someone working outside of their discipline of study. In short, it's worth very little.
     
  18. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

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    I love cute cuddly animals. The furrier the better. Especially if they're felines. I am not ashamed of that fact. I don't think.

    Guys have shackles about stupid things. Break em' is what I say.
     
  19. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

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    Occasionally I have seen this female couple where I work. They have butch haircuts and are big into sports. I'm sure they play softball. Don't they all?

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    I have this hunch that they aren't women. Real women are petite, timid, dainty, etc.
     
  20. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    the amusing thing about this thread is the "wait till you have kids" comments. they assume that the parents are inpartial observers when in reality they are the main CAUSE of the early socialised differences. for an experiment, go up to the parents of a baby wrapped in blue and say "what a beautiful girl" (or vis versa) and watch how rapidly they rush to correct you.

    the fact that socialisation starts from birth (or before) doest change it to biology rather than culturalisation.
     
  21. Blindman Valued Senior Member

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    We are robotic slaves to cultural evolutionary pressure. I like pink, big cars, clean homes and dangerous adventures. Thank the stars that intelligence is not a gender score.

    Culture is many times more powerful then hormonal influences...

    Lets get over the cultural role assignments and back to self determined social roles.

    From man that likes pink....
     
  22. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know how much they are magnified without doing some sort of experiment. I'm just saying I suspect she's right, I didn't say I know for a fact she is.

    I did indeed

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    But that's only one case. What about people who don't identify as their own gender they were born with, or don't identify with gender at all? Not everyone is born strongly programmed with a certain brain type.

    Um, I was talking about BEHAVIOUR

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  23. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

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    Dude, that was like, so gay it's not even funny!
     

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