Ok might i start off metioning the "big bang". Supposedly not an explosion but a burst or matter and energy. See the thing that I can not and never will stop thinking about is HOW? Scientist say that the universe (or Universes or cosmos) was created by the big bang. But what is really interesting is where did it all come from. I mean you can say god created it but where did he come from. It never ends. Because no matter what you say, It's is impossible to create something from nothing. Another intereseting thing is scientist along time ago thought that molecules were the smallest "things". But then they found Atoms, then protons-neutrons-electrons, now the String theory suggest those are made of quarks! And not to mention those evasive neutrinos that are so small that they pass through us the earth and everything else with no problem at all! How small does it get untill it ends!? Tristan
Hi Tristan, If we assume that everything comes from something before it (law of cause and effect) as you point out, it is really difficult to see how the universe could have started. Infact, from a logical standpoint, the closest thing to a coherent answer that I can think of is that the first "cause" (and, therefore, ultimately the cause of everything afterwards) had to be, at the very least, an eternal "something." Something that is eternal has no beginning, and therefore no need for a cause of its own. Or, you could assume that even everlasting somethings need a cause. Then you are back in the same boat again -- there seems to be no beginning. In this case, the only possible answer -- no matter how improbable (as Sherlock Holmes once said) -- must be true. Namely, that the first cause simply <i>did not follow the law of cause and effect</i>. If this were true, then it would imply that the first cause did not follow the laws of nature, ie it had to be "supernatural" in at least one sense. Since it didn't follow the law of cause and effect, it must have had no cause, and therefore had no beginning --> that brings us back around to implying that it is eternal. Thus, from a purely logical point of view, the universe <i>must</i> have had a supernatural origin. What this is can be left up to the individual, but based on the evidence, I personaly believe that it is the God of the Bible. This is one of the stronger cases for His existence. Thank-you for bringing it up. ~Caleb
A universe with no beginning is a universe defying cause and effect, yes. Existence without beginning is equivalent to an effect without a cause. When time is obscured, as time is under relativistic conditions, cause and effect becomes blurred, - ultimately they may merge into one and the same. It's not a reaction because the original action is indeterminate - in a mundane sense. Excuse me my vagueness - I wouldn't be able to effectively elaborate more on this. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! However... I find it funny that everything that is defying the scientific conception of reality can work as proof for a religion specific supreme devine being. Yesterday I heard a muslim use the exact same "evidence" to prove the existence of the Islamic supreme devine being Allah'. I think that the proof of a religion specific supreme devine being is and can only be concieved subjectively. There may be such a proof - but I believe it to be individual in its essence and that it can not be conveyed in either words or algebra. Regards, Excession
Sure Welcome to the boards, excession. Sure, that fits the logical cosmological conclusion of a supernatural origin. Cosmology can say nothing about which god created the universe. It can only point you in the general direction that there <i>was</i> a creator. A comparitive study of the religions themselves by analyzing what they actually say, though, from a scientific, historical, archeological, and even a philosophical standpoint will point to one religion as probably being the correct one over all others. I maintain that that religion is Christianity in its purest, most Biblical form. Now, you are obviously free to disagree with me, but in the end, it all comes down to the fact that only one can be right, so we had all better be sure that we hold to the right one. ~Caleb
Re: Sure Thank you very much. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! It seems like a nice place to be. Or there <i>is</i> a creator - if I look at the highenergy theoretical physics I find an indication of universal "fields" from which particles pops into existence. I'm not saying that God is mere fields, - there are more to the devine than that. I think such a study could at best give an indication of a common origin of religions. Finding the true one is done through meditation, prayer and concentration on the goal. The correct religion is worth nothing if nobody believes in it. Was that a cat I just saw? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Schroedingers Cat is an indication that there might not always be a right or a wrong, - the existence of an "in between" could also exist. Has it developed over the years - or did it stop changing the when you choose not to look any further? I think your religion is the closest match. It takes the form most appropriate for the person who has it at a given moment. Many people find that a belief grows and matures. I think the important thing is to <i>be</i> the soul instead of only the garment that covers it (the personality, the body etc.), and there by being in contact with God (in whatever form it/he/she might take on). ps. I'm aware that this issue is very personal, and by talking about it I risk insulting people (who often is used to that). Believing that God and divine influence is not a taboo, I continue and hope that my respect for those beliefs is accepted as true. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! - Excession
You seem to have a very open mind. That's good to see. May I ask what "religion" (if any) you believe in? Your welcome. Good point. I'm not sure I understand you correctly here, but if you're saying what I think you're saying I would have to disagree. The truth is worth something, even if nobody believes in it. The world is still round, even if nobody knows it is. If I've misunderstood you, though, please straighten me up on that. If you are refering to Christianity in general, God has always existed, and revealed Himself in many different ways (in the Garden of Eden, the Angel of the Lord, by the Ten Commandments, Christ on the cross, and ultimately, as a king returning to rule His people) On the other hand, if you are refering to my personal belief in that God, I find that it grows, strengthens, and matures every day from a daily regimen of Bible-reading and prayer. I'll try to keep a level head and speak through the love of God. ~Caleb
I would not be telling the whole truth if I said Nothing. I'm not exactly a spiritual tourist either, although I am fond of many traditional religions. It's a potentially long story, not exactly classifiable as being covered by the Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology topic. Let's start a thread in a more suitable forum. Except if we can maneuver the discussion about divinity into the possibilities of strange creatures roaming worlds foreign to us. Discussions of Truth are a wasp’s nest. The discussion will evidently fall on the issue if an objective reality exists or not. If one believes in an objective truth or denies the question as meaningless (because it's not falsifiable), it's almost impossible to bypass the predetermined ideas of the participants. What is it for something to be worth something? If the possessor is taken out of the equation it’s almost like making an equation with no definite and calculate-able answer. I would rather leave the question unanswered, and only agree with you that the earth is round when seen by a human through appropriate optics. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! That tells me it's safest to agree that we are probably both right and wrong. We may be looking in the right direction, but the further we look, the more we discover, and when looking back after looking intensely for quite some time, we almost cannot see where we started out. Were Newton wrong about gravity? Yes and no. Almost one might say, but not completely. Thanks; I'll try to make it easy. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! - Excession
It did bake my noodle. Imagine, everytime we go visit the doctor, the doctor says, it is God's will, search no further. Take your holy book put it under the pillow and pray.... Then again, I also learned that...people will modify their beliefs to suit their needs. And a new interpretation is just around the corner...
Well, if we all come from somewhere but from no where at the same time as you all are stating, how can we all survive without dying if we do not know how we became who we are. I'm new to this forum, but don't you think it is a logical explination that we all have looked for when there is a reason staring us in the face?Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Welcome to Sciforums, Sphinx321. Logical explanation is what everyone is searching for. We have not found it yet but the hunt goes on...you are welcome to join the hunt.... May your search for the truth is as rewarding as mine.....
Why hunt when you could have it given to you? We have been searching for the meaning of life while that is what we are turning our life into, a hunt for the meaning that which you have dictated yourself to, thus, you make your meaning, so why search for it?
...Because it is in our genes...we are a restless species...and because, it is fun. Dont you admit even a wee bit....that it is the fun part why you are here at the forum or anywhere for that matter? We have sex because we enjoy it, we eat desert because we enjoy it - not that it is good for us, we do a lot of thing like watching grown men chase a little ball....because??? So there is your answer.....
Good point, but for the ppl that complain about not being to find it, then what do you do? It seems like work for them, why do they continue? Its in their blood, the way horses are in a wranglers blood, and how the wind is my blood. they answer themselves with their own questions. So why should people argue?
Here is my Newly revised personal Qoute! "Life Is Learning And Understanding" Tristan Mertik (ME) Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
god? asshole. i sure hope god doesnt exist. assuming that god does exist, from the perspective of a human being, doomed to a lifetime of suffering, god is an asshole. further, if one is to assume that god is indeed all knowing, and that therefore, god's will is best against all others, then suffering is the natural state of existence. i wouldnt want to live in such a universe, but if i killed myself in responce to learning that god exists, i would be punished for my insolence with an eternity of horror (according to the xtain interpretation. i acknowledge that there are many other religions that contain god or gods.) also consider a polytheistic interpretation: there are many gods, but the ones who want suffering are winning (which means that suffering is stronger.) more fun!
Hello all, I don't know alot on this subject (i'm only 20) but wqould like to ask some question, 1. why does the testiments contradict each other? 2.If "God" is all around us, as it says in the bilble, why is there need for priests and churches etc..? 3. Do youz believe in other life outside our planet? and if so what does this mean regarding our god? I believe that the youth of today and tomorrow won't be able to make there own minds up on what they believe in, because as soon as your brought into this world it is drilled into your head that there is a god and by the time your old enough to make your own mind up, it has been done for you!! I'm not saying I don't believe in him, to be honest i don't know what to believe?, i do believe however that there is life on other planets,
Ryan: You should leave the technology of God to the professionals. They go to college for this specific technology and awarded a degree that says that. On the otherhand, it is a supply and demand thing. If you are not buying whatever they are selling, then then will sell what you will buy. Sales and marketing is very important. It is a very big organization, bigger than General Electric, Exxon and Walmart combined. So they are here to stay. But I assure you, they will sell you what you are willing to buy... Always remember, customer is the king. You are in control....
Christians teach that humans have brought about their own suffering through our own faults in being human. Essentially its all up to us wether or not we want suffereing or we want peace
I saw on a PBS special that scientist have recently discovered that the Universe is continually expanding and will never stop. My theory about the big bang is that something went faster than the speed of light (there's no limit to how far you can expand once you go that fast) and obliterated the universe it inhabited while creating this one. Up until the very first universe I think that's happened every time. I don't know, that's my theory.
