Those who have anti-science views, know the least but think they know the most

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by wegs, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    under funding childrens food
    is the same
    the governments do this with unemployment benefits and disability benefits

    this already takes place on mass in many countrys and is normalised as acceptable losses of children.

    same with lack of healthy houses for children to live in with over crowding and mold and damp giving them diseases and killing them and crippling them for life giving them inability to learn at school etc etc...

    these children are acceptable war dead by the majority of the population and governments.

    this is normal

    what is the moral rule you are seeking to facilitate a side to define ?
    which side of what ?

    we shall see how long it takes for governments to ban diesel vehicles around schools and urban areas and high foot traffic areas.
     
    Quantum Quack likes this.
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  3. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,447
    and yet there is still a majority who choose to ignore the scientific advantage of that position.

    note jakarta have declared they are moving their capital
    im quite impressed.

    helping to off set their carbon emissions by having a city surrounded by jungle is quite clever.
     
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  5. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    23,328
    Even C02 can be used as a refrigerant....now there is an irony in that somewhere.... lol
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,634
    I find it ironic that you condemn others for trying to do the right thing, whereas you aren't even willing to answer the question to begin with.

    Yes, as you said, it is a tough question. It is surely foolish to condemn someone as greedy/shortsighted/careless because they did not answer a question correctly that even you admit has no right answer.
    Because they worked better, and allowed cheaper/smaller refrigeration systems to be built. Also, ammonia is toxic, and killed a lot of people before Freon replaced it.
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,634
    OK. So can you answer the question?
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,634
    Probably not.
    Right. And there is no way that a computer scientist can know whether his new computer design will be compatible with existing computer systems, and it could result in a worldwide computer crash. Not a hope in hell of guaranteeing that. Should we stop all development of new computer systems? Say, all research into quantum computing?
     
  10. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,328
    What a hate filled response...
    Little wonder we are facing an extinction event...with attitudes like that we deserve it...
     
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,634
    Why do you find it hate filled? So far, you've been the one refusing to answer questions, and calling people you don't know greedy and self-serving.
     
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,328
    Do you consider the lyrics to this song written 30 years ago, as being anti-science?
    Salt Water:

    We are a rock revolving
    Around a golden sun
    We are a billion children rolled into one
    So when I hear about the hole in the sky
    Saltwater wells in my eyes
    We climb the highest mountain
    We'll make the desert bloom
    We're so ingenious we can walk the moon
    But when I hear of how the forest have died
    Saltwater wells in my eyes
    I have lived for love
    But now that's not enough
    For the world I love is dying And now I'm crying
    And time is not a friend (no friend of mine)
    As friends we're out of time
    And it's slowly passing by ....right before our eyes
    We light the deepest ocean
    Send photographs of Mars
    We're so enchanted my how clever we are
    Why should one baby feel so hungry she cries
    Saltwater wells in my eyes
    I have lived for love
    But now that's not enough
    For theā€¦

     
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,328
    what question haven't I answered... be specific use quotes.
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,634
    "Let's say we do the research and realize that CFC's are a problem. We develop an alternative refrigerant. It solves the ozone problem - but in 250 years it may cause a more toxic atmosphere, resulting in hundreds of deaths from chloramine poisoning. What's the right thing to do? Release the alternative, thus solving the problem now but putting people 250 years in the future at risk, or do nothing and let the ozone layer perish?"
     
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    He is the problem from my viewpoint

    First it really is impossible to know the effects of your actions, ANY action, let alone a science discovery

    Next if YOU make a ground breaking discovery and though your fantastic forethought suspect it may cause more problems years later, not definitive but it MIGHT

    so you do not release your discovery. Guess what? The discovery remains out there in the ether. So it has every chance of being discovered and released

    Pacifist Einstein signed, along with others, a letter urging America to develop a atomic bomb when he was under the impression Germany was doing such research. So he certainly knew of the problem his research had thrown up, so his reasoning became, better we have it first

    Best which can occur is try, stress TRY, to predict, and monitor any released discovery in addition to improving any discovery

    But what ever is out there will be found

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  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,634
    How about -

    "They paved paradise
    And put up a parking lot
    With a pink hotel, a boutique
    And a swinging hot spot

    Don't it always seem to go
    That you don't know what you've got til its gone
    They paved paradise
    And put up a parking lot

    They took all the trees
    And put 'em in a tree museum
    And they charged the people
    A dollar and a half to seem 'em"

    Or -

    "From the age of the dinosaurs
    Cars have run on gasoline
    Where, where have they gone?
    Now, it's nothing but flowers

    There was a factory
    Now there are mountains and rivers
    You got it, you got it

    We caught a rattlesnake
    Now we got something for dinner
    We got it, we got it

    There was a shopping mall
    Now it's all covered with flowers
    You've got it, you've got it

    If this is paradise
    I wish I had a lawnmower"

    Or -

    "I went back to Ohio
    But my pretty countryside
    Had been paved down the middle
    By a government that had no pride

    The farms of Ohio
    Had been replaced by shopping malls
    And Muzak filled the air
    From Seneca to Cuyahoga falls

    Said, a, o, oh way to go Ohio"

    Or -

    "We're coming down to the ground
    There's no better place to go
    We've got snow upon the mountains
    We've got rivers down below

    We're coming down to the ground
    To hear the birds sing in the trees
    And the land will be looked after
    We'll send the seeds out in the breeze"
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,328
    You must have missed it....
    But have thought again and would definitely take progressive steps to replace the hybrids regardless of the climate crisis...
    So no, is my answer i would not use the hybrid replacement gas, I would use a more natural alternative that we already co-exist with and have evolved with. (Re: previous discussion)
    With the amount of work needed to convert from Freon required using another more natural substance may actually prove cost effective.
    Doing nothing is not an option....
    The question you ask speaks volumes of how competent your enquiry is.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  18. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,328
    They don't seem to be anti science to me... how about you?
     
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,328
    Well those darstedly Russkies are doing their best to compete with the Yanks on hybrid nukes now...what say you about that? Wise or unwise science?
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  20. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,328
    wegs,
    Perhaps the word you are looking for is "cynical" or "cynicism"?
     
  21. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,270
    You claim to be worried about hypoxia because forests are burning and you think you're about to run out of oxygen, but you think ammonia is the answer?

    Ammonia may be naturally occurring, but it also has the potential to destroy the environment and cause havoc with our waterways.. It is classified as an air pollutant for a reason.

    Given the ocean is this planet's biggest CO2 sink and produces the most oxygen, why in the hell would you (given your pearl clutching about your fear of hypoxia because you think we are running out of oxygen due to the fires in the Amazon and Siberia) advocate using something that can potentially destroy the organisms in our waterways and thus, polluting our oceans and thus, actually causing even bigger issues? A small leak can be devastating and even deadly.
     
  22. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,328
    how does Ammonia and hypoxia relate in your response... it makes no sense
    Do I think ammonia is the answer to hypoxia...? Is that the question....?
    Nope... you are conflating the info in that Scottish article...



    At least with Ammonia we know what to expect, which can not be said for CFC or HFHC's. And we can smell it if it leaks and do something about it.
    Ammonia was only being used as an example any how...
    I still have no idea how it relates to the hypoxia issue.

    SPRI Emission Reporting Threshold
    1,000 Kg/yr Pollutant Emissions to Air
    20.0 Kg/yr Pollutant Emissions to Waste Water
    20.0 Kg/yr Pollutant Emissions to Water

    from your link...
    Ammonia also if leaking is a local issue that can be contained locally. It is not a global issue that generates millions of skin cancer related deaths. Not to mention the undisclosed damage being done to other animals and plants etc. The'increased High spectrum radiation also doesn't do the ocean's phytoplankton much good either. Ammonia can be beneficial to Phytoplankton.

    Reports are suggesting that China is still producing CFC.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-05-23/mystery-ozone-depleting-gas-tracked-to-china/11137546
    rather bewildering, incredibly unwise...

    The oceans them selves are not the major generator of O2. They do sacrifice O2 (ablate) when the atmosphere is reduced O2 and they get too hot etc...the oceans do not generate oxygen for the atmosphere per see.

    It is the micro Phytoplankton, living in the oceans that is responsible for approx. 70% Global O2 generation which was reported in 2010 as being severely in decline due to acidification/heating of the ocean.

    Dead zones/spots in the oceans are hypoxic areas and not necessarily attributable only to human generated effluence.

    Totally devoid of Phytoplankton
    in 20o4 146 DZ's reported
    in 2018 405 DZ's reported
    today ?

    The overall atmospheric O2 deficit is not able to be properly determined but we do know that the Amazon is responsible for at least 6% generating capacity according to your own link to the Guardian and that Phytoplankton has declined severely. Starving marine life, mass die off etc all indicative of a very sick situation.

    As I mentioned earlier the Dunning Kruger Syndrome is not restricted to anti science people but more dangerously so to pro-science people as well. Misinformation wrapped up as science kills credibility.


    Btw That Scottish web site link is fabulous resource assuming the figures used are similar elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  23. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,328
    Bells,
    The Australian pollution reporting thresh hold for Ammonia is 10 times the Scottish one. at 10,000kg per year.
    Can't find any for the USA.
    see : http://www.npi.gov.au/substances/substance-list-and-thresholds

    Also it appears that one of the biggest obstacles to using Ammonia in refrigeration is that it is highly corrosive of certain metals and rubbers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019

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