Thoughts and prayers

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Vociferous, Feb 27, 2018.

  1. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Apparently you couldn't be bothered to read the examples of Democrats filibustering gun control bills.
    Until you acknowledge them, I can't really take your argument seriously. Just partisan noise.
    Unless you can show me the specific poison pills, this seems like empty apologetics.
    So misread/misunderstood. Got it.
     
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  3. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    why don't you try being honest. i know its not something you and yours are known for. the "bills" you are reffering to are amendments to repealing the affordable care act. and most of the cases the democtats voting against them are people in red states worried of getting attacked by the NRA and losingtheir seats to republican who only care about the rich.
     
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  5. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Faith is purpose. Think about that.
     
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  7. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Really? You're just going to lie like that? Those were stand alone bills. If they had anything to do with the Affordable Care Act, one of these outlets would surely have been all over that:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...als-monday-heres-everything-you-need-to-know/
    https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/20/politics/senate-gun-votes-congress/index.html
    https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/o...4-gun-policy-measures-thorny-showdown-n595896
    https://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/senate-gun-votes-224560
    Or are the Washington Post, CNN, NBCNews, and Politico all right-wing shills?
    You'd have to prove your claim that the only Democrats voting against them are in red states. Otherwise, that's just laughable.
     
  8. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Quite often that's their content, sure. Maybe not this time - do you have an argument?
    They are irrelevant to my point: the Republicans have blocked Dem efforts, and done nothing themselves but offer thoughts and prayers. So less than nothing.
     
  9. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Even less than that, they voted to sell guns to the mentally ill.
     
  10. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Give me the title of one bill then. I'll look it up.
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
  12. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Hahaha!
    So Democrats filibustering to stop gun control bills, including from Republicans as well as Democrats, is irrelevant to your obvious partisan bias? Okay. I'll buy that.
    Hey, thanks for letting us know you didn't know what you were talking about. Really appreciate it.
     
  13. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    how many million marched ?
     
  14. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    According to the news, 200,000. According to march organizers, 800,000.
    US sales of Call of Duty, 4.55 million.
     
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Nobody in the news business came in under 200, 000 even just in Washington - there were marches all over the US, and worldwide.

    As far as Call of Duty - as an estimate for how many people sat on their ass and played video games instead of marching, that number seems likely low.

    As an estimate for how many actually provided the thoughts and prayers rhetorically offered by those doing nothing else, it seems likely high.

    You haven't noticed? It's not a secret.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
  16. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    I was only talking about DC, and estimates varied wildly.
    No, as an estimate of what has a greater influence on young people. One march or hours of daily play.
    Haha! That imagination of yours.
     
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    When it comes to influence on young people, the many more hours they spend in school - a place where they can be shot without warning - is probably a larger influence.
     
  18. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Or being threatened and getting shot at, in real life.
     
  19. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    American children do not “risk their lives” when they show up to school each morning — or at least, not nearly as much as they do whenever they ride in a car, swim in a pool, or put food in their mouths (an American’s lifetime odds of dying in a mass shooting committed in any location is 1 in 11,125; of dying in a car accident is 1 and 491; of drowning is 1 in 1,133; and of choking on food is 1 in 3,461). Criminal victimization in American schools has collapsed in tandem with the overall crime rate, leaving U.S. classrooms safer today than at any time in recent memory.
    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/03/there-is-no-epidemic-of-mass-school-shootings.html
    If you think those odds worry the average teen, you're out of touch.
     
  20. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    They worry disproportionately to the odds, but it doesn't matter because one time is too much.
     
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Then there's absolutely no point in arming teachers.

    Reasonable changes in the bad aspects of current laws and their enforcement, in particular regarding high-RPM firearms, should wrap up the ongoing success. And after that, some thoughts and prayers.
     
  22. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    It's still a real thing that happens, even if it didn't happen in this case. I don't pretend to know about things I don't know about. In this case, it seems the Democrats voted against what they felt was bad gun legislation.
     
  23. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Yep, out of touch.
    Here’s who actually attended the March for Our Lives. (No, it wasn’t mostly young people.)
    Contrary to what’s been reported in many media accounts, the D.C. March for Our Lives crowd was not primarily made up of teenagers. Only about 10 percent of the participants were under 18. The average age of the adults in the crowd was just under 49 years old, which is older than participants at the other marches I’ve surveyed but similar to the age of the average participant at the Million Moms March in 2000, which was also about gun control.
    ...
    Even more interesting, the new protesters were less motivated by the issue of gun control. In fact, only 12 percent of the people who were new to protesting reported that they were motivated to join the march because of the gun-control issue, compared with 60 percent of the participants with experience protesting.

    Instead, new protesters reported being motivated by the issues of peace (56 percent) and Trump (42 percent), who has been a galvanizing force for many protests.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-mostly-young-people/?utm_term=.d0cebe294268

    High schoolers still like their guns, even after Parkland
    Many American high schoolers do not blame school shootings on guns and don't argue the answer is tighter restrictions on firearms. It's a view at odds with many of their classmates, yet born from the same safety concerns.

    “There’s many things that go into a solution for this, and it’s not guns,” said Melanie Clark, an 18-year-old high school senior from Tallahassee. “We’re definitely in the minority for believing that it’s not guns.”

    As gun-control advocates their age gain popularity and others cast their generation as anti-firearm, pro-gun students feel at times overlooked. But polling suggests young people aren’t overwhelmingly for gun control.
    ...
    A USA TODAY/Ipsos poll taken after the Parkland shooting found fewer than half of students 13 to 17 think tightening gun laws and background checks would prevent mass shootings.
    ...
    Marjory Stoneman junior Kyle Kashuv, a firm Second Amendment supporter, opposes banning assault weapons. School shootings, he said, are driven by “faulty communication and reporting of prior convictions,” along with mental health issues.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-gun-control-stance-after-parkland/444834002/
    No, they voted against two bills submitted by Democrats (and two by Republicans) in favor of overly aggressive bills they knew couldn't pass with the current makeup of Congress. They cynically want the issue to be around for the midterm election campaigns, instead of doing anything about it now.
    Just because there is no epidemic does not mean there is no threat at all.

    No, ROF is just another in the long history of slippery slopes on gun control. First its bump stocks, then high-end triggers, then modifying stock triggers, then efficient buffer tubes, ported bolts and slides, and weakly loaded ammo. Did you know that a simple shoe lace or belt loop can work like a bump stock? Going to ban those next? What about people who learn the bump-fire technique without any assistance at all? See, ROF is just an excuse to ban AR-15s altogether, not to mention just about every handgun.
     

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