Thread and posts disappearing

The "Time for a positive thread?" thread seems to be gone from here and it's not in the cesspool.

I'd like to know why it was deleted. Was it an infraction of site rules?

Also, earlier I made a post in the "Backgrounds in moderation" thread, which got deleted without giving me a warning for infraction or a justification for taking it down. It just disappeared.
So I went and posted it again. And it is gone again.


I'd like to ask the mods and the community if they think it's fair for posts and even whole threads to disappear like that.
If the records are allowed to be tampered with in this manner, it is easy for someone that has the power to delete posts to say that someone never said something, when they did.

I'd also like to ask if this kind of file burning is to be expected in the future, so that I can plan to keep my own records.

I'd also like to ask, if I haven't the right to have my non-infringing posts be kept up, why don't you just ban me already? It's easy to tell that you just do whatever you want with this place. I don't think anyone will care.... until it's their turn.

 

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A complete lack of answers

Officially, Varda, the moderators presently have two options:

(A) Yes, we agree.
(B) No comment.​

If I ask you to add the two and two on that, are we both looking at the same four?

It doesn't matter whether or not the posts are deleted; people say that sort of stuff all the time, and the fact of whether or not it is on the record has nothing to do with the outcome. Rather, it seems a question of who you are instead of what the actual facts are. I am hoping for some clarification regarding the status of facts in this community. I do not know whether or not I will get that clarification, or if I will be permitted to share that information with the general membership.

If I say it's probably wise to keep your own records, anyway, can we do the two and two thing again?

If it doesn't offend you, I would like to use that paragraph as an example.

To wit, what am I supposed to say?

Who is the you when you accuse that, "... you just do whatever you want with this place"?

I cannot answer your question. In fact, nobody but the staff member who performed that action can answer your question. Yet the last functional and relevant subject I can find that would clarify that you is the idea of moderators, as expressed in the sentence, "I'd like to ask the mods and the community if they think it's fair for posts and even whole threads to disappear like that."

I cannot actually answer your question about whys and wherefores. I mean, literally. Wasn't me. I haven't any notes explaining the thread closure. Anything I might offer by way of explanation is guesswork. Speculation. Raw interpretation of incomplete data.

In this case, then, the best I can offer is that you need to inquire with the administration.

And I know that can be a frustrating answer when we just pass you through up the ladder, but that's all the moderators have to work with right now, unless you would like us to speculate. And, well, we saw how well that worked out, didn't we, in answering Gustav.

 

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I know what you mean.

Well, when people are out saying whatever they want, it's usually helpful to have a little piece of hard evidence.

I am, as well. I'm sure many others are. If the leadership of this forum has ay respect for its members, it will make these clarifications public.

Will do.

I don't get offended. Ever.

Whoever deleted the posts/thread. Your guess is as good as mine, as there are no records. And what a good guess it is.

I appreciate your attempt. Better than no answer at all (and another deleted thread).

I thought this is one of the reasons this forum exists.

It's my best guess that the administration is involved, either by direct action, or by one of his goons. Thus, I have no confidence in obtaining an answer by inquiring with the administration.
I suppose I can ask plazma to direct his attention to this thread, since he seems to be around...
If possible, I'd like you to do me the favor of discussing this in the back room with everyone there. I hope that the fact that it happen to me (and not to some other member who is held in higher regard) doesn't distract them from the actual issue, which is an important one.

Frustration is the word that defines the overall sciforums experience.

 

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Varda you will be 19 for ever more in my eyes . Eternally youthful. I wonder how many people understand what you are even ranting about .

You know most people think like : That can never happen ! Why you such a downer on all that . Just let it go.

The next thing you know it happens .

So what we got hear theoretically is you can delete someones posts and claim them as your own . Copyright laws will be in your favor if the posters have no hard copies. Just the opposite reasons is why I decided to live out in the open like I do. I felt secure in knowing that I take ownership of what I say .

In the end does it matter . Change in perceptions is my ultimate goal so who cares anyway as long as the objective is reached. I like it when people take personal ownership of what I say . It gives Me warm fuzzy feeling

 

post some cartoons
perhaps that will relieve the tension
we can all laugh at ourselves

 

Notes on a Disaster

Oh, well, I know who, just not specifically why. Or, rather, I can speculate, and probably be pretty close, but I am presently unwilling to speculate, as such, because it gets us nowhere useful. And we don't have any data as to why, so that speculation would be as purely speculative as can be.

The following sounds conspiratorial, so take it with whatever boulder of salt your inner Sisyphus is up to handling: I would advise you to inquire via Private Message. In the same moment, though, I would remind of the new standard regarding the contents of Private Messages.

Again, I'll ask you to do the basic arithmetic.

I'll do what I can, as soon as I figure out the what and how. To the other, I should probably forewarn that I'm not, at present, the best candidate to make the backroom inquiry on your behalf.

Normally, I would say something like, "The sad thing is that it doesn't have to be this way." Unfortunately, I cannot do so today, as it is not apparent to me that the statement would be true.

(There is also, generally speaking, a question of plot details versus themes of the story. Some plot details in the next days might seem frustrating, but the discussion I'm trying to have with the administration presently pertains to themes. It is my feeling that without some broad—even drastic—thematic reorientation, the plot details are for naught.)

 

I've discovered at sciforums that if you quote something, it becomes your opinion

So here are my varied opinions on this matter:

"Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage."


"Censorship of anything, at any time, in any place, on whatever pretense, has always been and always be the last resort of the boob and the bigot."

"A censor is an expert in cutting remarks. A censor is a man who knows more than he thinks you ought to."

"What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist."

"All censorships exist to prevent anyone from challenging current conceptions and existing institutions. All progress is initiated by challenging current conceptions, and executed by supplanting existing institutions. Consequently the first condition of progress is the removal of censorship."

"Censorship reflects a society's lack of confidence in itself. It is the hallmark of an authoritarian regime..."

"Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear."

IOW, welcome to the dark side.

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as long as the above is true no amount of "rules" will ever change this place.
you will NEVER know whether a rule is right or not.
if a rule calls for a ban for trolling then a definition of trolling is needed, when that definition is breeched, no matter by whom, that poster gets banned, whether they have 10 posts or 25,000.


.

 

I had spent some considerable time reading some books related with conflict resolution ("how to win friends & influence people", "how to work for idiots", "how to work with idiots", just to mention few), and would like to share something that I learn from them since they're quite relevant to the topic at hand. It has helped me immensely at work.

What I have learn from those books:

• Never embarrass people, either in private, let alone in public, even if they're wrong

• Freud said, everything you do springs from 2 motives: sex urge & desire to be great. Every human is craving for the feeling to be important, everybody likes compliment, everyone wants to be appreciated. Never criticized anyone the way you don't want to be criticized (critics must be delivered in a wise way).
  
  Sounds manipulative, but not really. If we focus on the negative side of the other party, such as saying, "you are a liar/ you are fascist", etc., the outcome is pretty predictable. On the other hand, we can say like "this place is where intelligent people gather, and intelligent people love to entertain a lot of ideas, they need a lot of space, would be nice if you could give them more space, it also gonna reduce your effort to manage them, because more moderation sometimes create more complaints". This isn't manipulative, this is honest, yet it shows that you also care with the well being of the other party.

• Never hesitate to apologize first, even if we think we are on the right side. The apology should be sincere. Apologizing doesn't make us lower or losing face, most people see it as having bigger heart... so, it's a win-win solution

• long text isn't effective, so I split it here, and will try to continue in the next post

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Briefly

Well, we are hoping to get some clarification in the next day or two.

While I see some abstract logic in what you say, the validity does not always hold up in practical application. I mean, sometimes it's a matter of context. And we have long tended to grant a certain, amorphous sympathy to certain processes that often take place between longtime members with existing relationships that we do not necessarily offer to "noobs" who think they can stomp in here without any clue about the dynamics of the community's diverse relationships and try to wield their own version of a big stick.

 

I am typing from the parts which I highlighted in my books, not from a softcopy, so I can't type very fast. More excerpts from the book:

• Be a good listener. Instead of blaming, asking for advice is more effective. I figured for example if some admins make good posters gone, we can ask their advice on what to do to keep good people around. Sensitive issues are better addressed privately, because sometime people feel under pressure in public (says the book).

• Win people to your way of thinking. The book says, first, it's important to control your temper. Then, you must look for areas of agreement. Means, you must focus on what are beneficial for both party. When your opponent opposes your idea and insisting his own idea, first thank them, then tell them that you promise you will think over his ideas and will study them carefully. Postpone action to give both parties enough time to think. You can say for example, "you must be very tired, you must also work, say we talk again about this after 2 days?".

• Be positive. Never say "you are wrong". And if you are wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically. This way you will win his respect and have better chance to achieve your objective.

to be continued.... I will try to finish it in max 2 more posts.

 

Call it speculation if you want. The post was deleted because it made fun of JamesR's cluelesness.
The thread was deleted because it showed broad community support for Stryder to become admin.

Will do.

Neither am I the best candidate to complain

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But thanks anyway.

 

Rrrr... last tips, in brief, the book says:

• talk about your own mistakes before criticising the other person

• Let the other person save face

• give the other person a fine reputation to live up to

• make the fault seems easy to correct (use encouragement and try not to sound complicated, the other party must have the feeling that for you their time is also valuable)

• make the other person happy about doing what you suggest

If all else fail, plot a revolution

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j/k

I hope these tips are useful, if not here, maybe to use at work

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Cheers

p.s.: I am honestly deeply sad that Bells is gone. Bells, if you read this: please come back when you are ready, I enjoy reading your posts, and you are an awesome moderator!!

 

i understand.
you have my sympathies.

another major change that is needed is for MODERATORS be held accountable for their actions.
for example:
i was banned by trippy for intellectual dishonesty.
i PM'ed trippy asking for his explanation, so far i haven't heard a word from him. ( yes, he was online after the PM and was posting )
this is nonsense in my opinion, and should be an infractable offense.

i sure hope the mod team can come up with a winner.

 

That was very well put Sara . Me I was invited to the dark side by Jane . She said there was cookies ? I want my cookie Sara .
I got a funny story about discrimination you are just going to love . Well maybe not but it was the funniest thing to Me . Later though on another thread some day

 

And if Dale Carnegie don't work then there is always a bigger stick method .
Rash and to the point is what I mean . The haunting is what I call it . Like when it goes over your head , but you wake up in the middle of the night and go " Oh Fuck " sit up and contemplate before you lay back down slowly going fuck that is why . Why didn't I think of that before ? Fuck Me anyway .
You own it when that happens and you spread it like a disease to all your good friends . Now that is how change can happen

 

actually the PM read in its entirety:
you will now demonstrate my intellectual dishonesty.
it's the reason you banned me remember?

the thread in question:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=109508
i see nothing in the aforementioned thread where you have demonstrated my alleged intellectual dishonesty.