# Three Experiments Challenging SRT

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by Masterov, Jun 12, 2012.

1. ### originIn a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect.Valued Senior Member

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Masterov - you do not seem like a stupid person - why would you want to live in such obvious denial? I suppose that you devoted so much time to your 'theory' that you cannot bear the thought of abandoning it. It is really rather sad. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses.

3. ### przyksquishyValued Senior Member

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You're not making any sense. We expect the clocks to run fast, as predicted by General Relativity. The clock rates are usually described as depending on a contribution from both relativistic time dilation associated with their velocity, and gravitational time dilation due to their altitudes. The gravitational time dilation effect is stronger in this case, so on balance the clocks are predicted to run faster than clocks on Earth.

What, relativistic muons don't count?

What???

What is the source of your information? How do you know it is reliable?

That said, even if something like that did ever happen, the whole world isn't Soviet era Russia. The fact of the matter is that papers criticising relativity or exploring alternatives can and have been published. AlphaNumeric gave some examples. Last year's reported detection of superluminal neutrinos became widely known and was taken as seriously as it should have been. There is certainly not a worldwide ban on challenging relativity.

Calorimeters in accelerator experiments are capable of measuring the energies of individual particles. It's hard to get more direct than that.

5. ### przyksquishyValued Senior Member

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Incidentally, ten seconds of Googling turns this up on Wikipedia:

7. ### BelieveHappy mediumValued Senior Member

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You all need serioulsy realize that masterov is an internet troll and nothing more. He is probably not russian, nor does he not believe in SRT. He is simply fucking with you. Notice how every time someone comes up with a good response that he could not possibly counter he simply says that he cannot translate it or that your English must be bad? Notice how he proposes conspiricys, argues that there are conspiricys, then says that he didn't just do that? Stop feeding the troll and just like the bears in national parks he will go away.

8. ### Quantum QuackLife's a tease...Valued Senior Member

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Opinon only:

Masterov, You are like so many before you at this forum aware somehow that SRT does indeed have an issue. What you do not realise is that the sheer brilliance of the theory and it's immediate and incrediby useful and productive ramifications certainly make "over turning it" almost impossible.

I am certain that R Feynman, who probably was one of the most clever intellects this world has seen, post Einstein, realised also that the theory SRT was utterly bullet proof except for one incidental yet enourmously important aspect. The one fact meant that the only way R Feynman could continue to work was to develop his theories and employ his creativity in parrallel with out directly challenging the beast of what appears to be an incredibly effective set of theories such as SRT and GRT. To over turn SRT you have to over turn E=mc^2 and that isn't going to happen easilly I can assure you.

In other words you are doing what most people have done and underestimate the scale of the challenge you would be required to be successful at.
R Feynman couldn't do it and was smart enough to realise that so he developed QED instead. [ thus gaining the Nobel in the process ]
There is no conspiracy, not really, other than to over turn SRT requires a tad more than what you are presenting simply because you are relying on that small incidental fact I mentioned earlier to do it with which is why we are stuck with SRT to begin with.
After monitoring a 4 year struggle for one poster here at sciforums years ago I realised why it was futile to use the error with in SRT to fight SRT and that is what every complainer appears to be trying to do...
"If you think about it a bit, the error which is ultimately common to all fields of enquiry, has to be as amazingly brilliant as the theories themselves."

Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
9. ### MasterovRegistered Senior Member

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I do not understand you.
But I see that in your posts is completely absent scientific reasoning.
I see no reason to communicate with you.

10. ### MasterovRegistered Senior Member

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Relativistic effects of GPS-satellites are rumors, which were not confirmed.

11. ### MasterovRegistered Senior Member

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Time of origin of the muon in the upper atmosphere is unknown.
We only know the distance and time of life.
No exist argument for to do assertion that was time dilation.
The muon can travel faster than light.

Last edited: Jul 27, 2012
12. ### MasterovRegistered Senior Member

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Energy of relativistic particles in accelerators not measured, but calculated by next formula: $\Delta E=e\Delta U$.

In some experiments used calorimeters to measured the energy of the particles.
But calibrated these calorimeters did by this formula.
Therefore, these measurements are not adequate.

Master Theory shows (and Liangzao FAN's experiments confirm ) that for relativistic charged particles of the formula (Classical Electrodynamics) are not working.

13. ### MasterovRegistered Senior Member

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A. Bronstein in his book "Conversations about the cosmos and hypotheses," reported that "... only for a 1966 Department of General and Applied Physics, USSR Academy of Sciences has helped doctors identify the 24 paranoid" ("Young Guard", № 8/95) ...
Academician Zel'dovich once again named the paranoid people who criticize the "sacred" dogmas in 1978.

In USSR decision to ban criticism of the theories of relativity were taken at least three times. "In 1934 he published a special decree of the CPSU (b) for discussion of relativism in which all the opponents of this" theory "refers to either the" Right deviators, "or to" menshevistvuyuschim idealists, "with all the ensuing consequences for them: Solovki , White Sea Canal, Magadan ... ". Further:" In 1942 at the anniversary session, devoted to 25th anniversary of the revolution, the Presidium of the USSR shall take special resolution on the theory of relativity: "valid scientific and philosophical content of the theory of relativity ... represents a step forward in the opening of the dialectical laws of nature. "This decision was reinforced by a ban-verbal indication of the all-powerful Beria, who was then head of nuclear" problem number one. "Finally, "in 1964 Presidium of the USSR issued a private ruling prohibiting all scientific advice, magazines, academic departments to accept, consider, discuss and publish works critical of Einstein's theory" ("Young Guard", № 8/95).

Not Russia only:
Friedrich Adler, who worked with Einstein at the University of Zurich, was forcibly subjected to medical examination with a view to establish his mental disorder in 1917.

14. ### MasterovRegistered Senior Member

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But calibrated these calorimeters did by formula: $\Delta E=e\Delta U$.

15. ### MasterovRegistered Senior Member

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Bertozzi not put scientific experiments.
Bertozzi made laboratory-scale plant to demonstrate for students to demonstrate the relativistic effects.
Report Bertozzi is not a report about a scientific experiment.
Report Bertozzi was justification to dean of university.
Report Bertozzi justify the cost of establishing a laboratory-scale plant.
Report Bertozzi written half a century ago in the heyday of radio tubes.
Bertozzi report could not be regarded as a scientific foundation 50 years ago.
Bertozzi report could not be regarded as a scientific foundation today.

It is irresponsible to build modern science in such a rotten foundation.
The more that a simple experiment (Liangzao FAN) dash to pieces from the SRT.

16. ### MasterovRegistered Senior Member

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You can read my monograph, which is written in Russian.

This my work is a response to charges to my that I am: not a Russian, a troll and a madman.

17. ### MasterovRegistered Senior Member

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R Feynman was a smart man.
Ptolemy was very clever too.

Answers to all questions at issue can only be given the repeated experiments of Liangzao FAN.

It is expected the publication of these experiments in the near future.
I look forward to it.

18. ### OnlyMeValued Senior Member

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I take you at your word, where the language issue is involved.

Accepting that, it seems unfortunate that the great volume of information on the GPS system, is likely not easily available in Russian. The way I read the information available, all of your objections to the involvement of both SR and GR, are addressed.

The GPS system requires real time adjustments to compensate for the effects of both SR and GR time dilations.

The USSR conspiracy and suppression issue, while it may have been and likely was to some extent real, and you may have lived through it, is also long in the past. The USSR has not existed for a long time now.

Try researching the information available on the GPS system and approach the information you get in translation, with the knowledge that native English speakers, do read this information as including both SR and GR time dilation effects.

When "we" read the openly available information, though we sometimes argue over what it all means, we can also all agree that both SR and GR time dilation is involved.

If the GPS system did not compensate for both, everyone with a car in the USA would be in Russia by now, or more like on the sea floor just off the US shore line, since cars don't float.

19. ### przyksquishyValued Senior Member

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Direct reports by individuals who collaborated on the GPS system are not rumours.

You realise time dilation has been observed in muons accelerated in the lab, right?

No. First it's not that simple, because relativistic particles aren't accelerated by a single potential difference (a series of alternating electromagnets are used) and charged particles radiate away energy as they're accelerated around the ring. Second, the total collision energy can usually be measured (or at least lower bounded) by adding up the total energies of all the particles produced by the collision. I referred to LEP earlier because it was an electron-positron collider at which many "simple" events (such as $e^{+} e^{-} \rightarrow e^{+} e^{-}$) were observed, for which often close to the full collision energy of 91 GeV was detected. An indirect confirmation also comes from when the collision energy is increased and new events are observed (such as $W^{+} W^{-}$ events at LEP, when the collision energy was increased from 91 GeV to over 160 GeV. That's a fairly direct confirmation that something changed, despite the fact the electrons were circulating at just under c in both cases so there should be no difference according to Newtonian physics.

The beam dumps give another fairly direct indication of the energy of the beams, like I said before.

False. Calorimeters work by triggering electromagnetic or hadronic particle showers (depending on the type of calorimeter), like I explained earlier. They are not dependent on the formula $\Delta E=e\Delta U$.

Well like I said, the whole world isn't Soviet era Russia.

What, this guy?

Bullshit. You wanted an experiment that did essentially the same thing as Liangzao Fan? You got one, and now you're inventing excuses to ignore it just because you don't like the results.

You are so obviously grasping at straws now.

No, it is irresponsible to build modern science on such a rotten foundation as a single badly written unpublished paper reporting results that contradict what everyone else doing experimental work with relativistic particles is seeing. That's why modern scientists won't listen to you.

20. ### MasterovRegistered Senior Member

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Russia has implemented its own satellite navigation system (GLONASS).
We used the experience of GPS.
In the relativistic correction of GPS time is blocked.
Our satellites also show no relativism.

Our dispute about such a controversial (due to their complexity and lack of access to classified information) objects, which are satellite navigation systems is unproductive. Would be simpler repeat the experiments Liangzao FAN, who will answer all uncertainty.

Why not publish?

21. ### MasterovRegistered Senior Member

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In these experiments measured the distance and did not measure time.
Muons may be fly at a speed that exceeds the speed of light.

Our dispute about such a controversial objects, which are muons is unproductive. Would be simpler repeat the experiments Liangzao FAN, who will answer all uncertainty.

Why not publish?

22. ### MasterovRegistered Senior Member

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Work?

But I was talking about calibrating calorimeters.

Our dispute about such a controversial objects, which are calorimeters is unproductive. Would be simpler repeat the experiments Liangzao FAN, who will answer all uncertainty.

Why not publish?

23. ### MasterovRegistered Senior Member

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Yes. I never claimed otherwise.

Nevertheless, it seems strange lack of publications simple (but fundamentally important) experiments of Liangzao FAN.
Similar experiments were carried out earlier.
Hundreds of such experiments are implemented out earlier.
Why are none of them has not been published.

Why not publish today?

In this forum, very aggressively foisted the idea of ​​my (the alleged) insanity.
This is very reminiscent of Russia.