Tiassa at Sciforums in Three Acts and an Epilogue (for the Haters)

wes

I contend that hate perpetuates the realization of a threat over time

that seems to be excellent. i was reading about the general attitude of the vietnamese towards americans and it appears they harbor no ill feelings towards the americans. could this because they had no time in which to build up their hatred? we were not oppressing them for centuries but rather had contact with them for a relatively short period of time?

we can than contrast this with the balkan shit with their ancient rivalries and myths of past glories all fueling some serious ass hatred

As such, hate can motivate me to eradicate things that threaten me. If all things that threaten me are eradicated, that is good.

dunno wes, there simply appears to be way too many variables for the above to be of much use apart from a very general sense (which of course was your intention i presume)

 

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Tiassa

Umm..No problem?

A request.
This goes out to Tiassa, Wesmorris, Xev, themarquis, and yes even spookz :

I have a thread that was doing nicely in human science. Its on language. (Well it was originally, but it meandered a bit towards sociology, psycology, and even a bit of neurology) If any of you have the time and are perhaps feeling bored, give it a read and help me jump start the thought process again. Its only about 3 pages (40 posts), though at times I approach a Tiassa like post length.

Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

 

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Re: Various

perhaps. the point here i am trying to make is that all this talk of hatred ala "death to the infidel" is probably nothing but rhetoric used to impress the masses. perhaps osama does not hate. perhaps he chose a course of action to achieve his objectives in a manner unfettered by emotion. i am also sure any good soldier/strategist would know that hatred is hindrance if you wanna do some serious damage.

 

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Without objection

Spookz

Seems easy enough. Thank ye.

:m:,
Tiassa

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Re: Various

Well, threat is a highly subjective ordeal. It depends on the psychology of the individual. I think all threats are subjected to primal instincts (the modern equivalent of the survival instinct which is the same as always, merely significantly convoluted in comparison to the survival instincts of primitive man) one integrated into one's experience. The core of the function of the survival instinct has not changed. The human must excel in its environment to survive. The environment has just become more complicated.

I want to link it up but I'm tired so...

(a bunch of other stuff which you can probably surmise)....

Hate is a fundamental aspect of survival.

With that pompous bullshit said, you probably are really only arguing a specific case whereas I'm addressing the general. You bastard. IMO, this realization makes it much easier to understand the function of hate in an evolutionary capacity.

Do you hide your real question? Why? You're really asking 'what causes you to feel threatened?' aren't you? Maybe I'm wrong. If that is what you're asking, aren't you really interested in discussing it or posing a statement as a question again? Geh. Straighten me out man, I'm not sure of your intent at this point.

(OH, hehe.. so THAT's what you meant. Nevermind about that part where I was confused about that

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)

The menaces subjectively implemented sense of survival integrated with his own plethora of emotional content, including hate, love, blah blah. It's relativity in cranial form.

Yeah I suppose you're correct but you ignore that hate is dynamic and sometimes justified. If you tortured me my whole life I would hate you to the core of my being and dedicate myself to your extermination. That is perfect justfication. Once that situation were resolved, I'd imagine I'd be able to contemplate a life without hate because the threat would be removed.

I believe the lesson here is that (with the exception of an enormous expenditure of will) every human is wired such that they have a point at which emotional responses simply nullify intellectually directed decision making.

EDIT: I guess I'm just observing that ultimately wisdom, however valid... is not always relevant?

 

Re: wes

hey fucker, you were just using it above in your post! hehe. it applies as you discern details about people as well. try considering this junk as you get to know people. it, coupled with the style of analysis that led to it as valid, can yield productive results. at least that's what I tell me.

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what?
am i talking crap or are you talking crap!
i am so fucking confused and my brain hurts

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you know what's fucked up man is that I earnestly never know. shit just comes to me and I spew it. I do a once over and edit. I post it, edit again. when i do all that, it seems to fit what I meant, but I can't fucking tell if I'm completely full of shit or not. I just assume that I am and move on, highly entertained by the cycle of realizing that I'm doing all that and forgeting and doing it again, realizing it again... etc.

 

bullshit. you made it into fountains list so stop kidding yourself

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This is still going on? Mabye we should just make this a sticky

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Luke ... do not underestimate the power of the Dark Side ....

But when should it be the basis for action? Certainly a people may hate their oppressors, but all revolutionaries pretend to strive for something better. That something better becomes the basis of action. Hatred is merely the fuel. Actions based in hatred tend to consume the hater eventually. It is, I suppose, a matter of degrees.

On the one hand, 999 out of 1,000 people would agree with you at least. In the practical, I don't question certain people on this point. In the abstract, however, it is no justification at all but mere presumption of right and propriety.

Yes. Justice.

That I tend to agree with you regarding the reality of the circumstance ... oh ... I see the edit.

Some days are like that, ain't they?

At any rate, I was going to say that while I agree regarding the circumstance, I fail to see how it helps the situation. Sure, humans are prone to irrationality. But at a certain degree, this does not mean that "doing stupid things" suddenly becomes a truly good idea in the practical. Irrationality is part of the human spark, but so is fucking part of being human. Neither of these facts makes rape a good idea, for instance.

Or ... something approximately like that.

:m:,
Tiassa

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Re: Luke ... do not underestimate the power of the Dark Side ....

What if Einstein is born of the rape? I realize it's never a good idea. It's just that bad ideas sometimes turn out well. It's just messed up like that.

 

oddly, religion comes to mind.

(ps, yeah, pardon my editing, it takes me like five reads to get it right sometimes and it's just too much time to explain what I'm doing.. ack, please excuse)

 

A request.
This goes out to Xev, Gendankass:

tiassa has a thread that was doing nicely in free thoughts. Its on haters. (Well it was originally, but it meandered a bit towards pedantry, sycophancy, and even a bit of asskicking) If any of you have the time and are perhaps feeling bored, give it a read and help me jump start the thought process again. Its only about 1000 pages (billion posts), though at times he approach a biblical like post length.

Any further thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

 

(this is actually my reaction to your comments in that drug thread, it just didn't seem to fit in a thread but I wanted to say it anyway)

You know tiassa, sometimes I think you could verbally bitch-slap Dennis Miller. You aight beyatch. Fo reel.

As with Mr. Miller (whom I regard as undeniably brilliant), sometimes the breadth and clarity of your reference material makes your argument appear stronger than it actually IS, but I've never seen either lacking insight (though I have to add that obviously I see as idealistic sometimes, I'm sure you feel similarly in regards to my rantings).

Regardless, kudos to your big fat juicy brain you gook bastard.

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Cheers brother.

 

Tessie:

..........and I'm glad to see you've left out the American one. Right on cue like I thought you would. Selective pigeonholing. You monsieur are what the French call a predictible dick. Tightass.
And you can’t see how Camus fits into all this? Can’t see how I’d see the hatred Camus is talking about put to good use would have stomped Hitler to jelly? That’s the tightassitis flaring up again Tessie.

Spooks:

Now you’re talking. Good call spooky poo. But- gasp! I never did elaborate on a revolutionary aftermath, now did I? Now, if we’re going to use hatred as a means to an end it would take a fucking miracle to avoid the Franco Reign of Terror and what Dickens called the national razor. Why a miracle? Dare you ask? It would take the skills of a cultural anthropologist whose not only the fucking lawyer, but he’s going to have to play judge, jury, executioner and press priest in order to tame the heat flawlessly. Not only that but he’s going to have to clone himself a hundred thousandfold so that there would be enough ‘hims’ to tend to all the silly factions and groupies sure to spring up out of spite. 9 out of 10 the outcome is dystopia, Spooky. And Machiaveli knew why when he said men were “ungrateful, fickle, deceptive and deceiving, avoiders of danger and eager to gain”. Right like a mofo.

One exception happens to be the colonial American hate for the Red Coat. One of the others happens to be the ancient Greek hate for those pompous Persians who looked to ravage Greece when Asia finally met up with Europe and both clashed. It seems the story ends a bit different there, doesn’t it? Could a quasi utopian ideal be what happens when hate is democratically calculated, allowing for reason, finely tuned and dealt with one fucking blow?
Hmmmm………

But enuff of you Tessie. Seems the only way to put something new in your fucking fathead is surgery. The very fact that you will choose to see the POV of a one but not of the other says loads about you buddy boy. You’re a pennypinching fag with your noxious idealism. A tautoligical nightmare. It all boils down to me having overestimated you and you having underestimated me. Finito.

Before we part though, can you belch out “INCONCEIVABLE! “ for me? All in caps and make sure you put an exclamation point at the end. Deck it in stars for a bonus.

 

BTW:

Wesmorris, very good points. Worming evolution in there to factor in somehow was good, but you didn't quite take it as far as I thought you would. Anyway, muchas grassy ass.

 

Hehe, I'm pretty sure.. though maybe I'm wrong.. that uhm.. yeah, that doesn't mean shit. Yeah, that's right. Okay, maybe it means shit, but not much more.

Gendy:

Thanks babe.

I agree that Tiassa grossly underestimates you and your sleeping partner and I have greatly enjoy your exchange of scorn.

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All three of you are freakin GREAT scorn throwers. You GO!

*kowtow*

 

Unfinished business?

Gendanken

Remember this?

Technically, I'm still waiting.

Your next post in the topic skips the issue altogether and attempts to refocus the debate on other issues.

Really, Gendanken, it's an important part of why you make no sense to me. If you can manage to document the legitimate oppression to which the haters are responding, you could transform the shape of this debate entirely.

Really, it shouldn't be that tough for you, since what you're asserting is "a bold faced fact a thousandfold over".

:m:,
Tiassa

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chiapas

"We are proposing a space," Marcos has said in an interview, "an equilibrium between the different political forces in order that each position has the same opportunity to influence the political direction of this country... The rest of the country shouldn't be spectators... The people have to decide what proposal to accept, and it's the people who you have to convince that your opinion is correct. This will radically change the concept of revolution, of who the revolutionary class is, of what a revolutionary organization is.... The Zapatista revolution isn't proposing the taking of power... We are saying 'Let's destroy this State, this State system. Let's open up this space and confront the people with ideas, not weapons.' " What he is describing seems to be nothing less than a generalization, locally and to the country as a whole, of the political processes of direct democracy that have been developed within the mountains of Chiapas.

after 500 yrs of rebellion against the invaders, marcos aint too good at hating. in spite of.....over 15,000 troops dispatched to Chiapas, aerial bombings of villages, summary torture and execution of captives, he remains cool

this is how it can be done, my little gendankass! constructive action and not blind hate!

interview with the Subcommander