To all the people who are going to hell in a hand basket...

I am curious. If you found out that God is infact the author of the bible, and that Jesus died for your sins what would you do? You may disagree with some of Gods laws in the bible. Will this keep you from Him? Would you try to know Jesus? Would you still be angry at God for allowing evil in the world? Would you accept the fact that you are a bad person and need forgiveness?

Vinnie

My boss was a Jewish carpenter.

 

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You mean IF God and Jesus are who they REALLY are suppose to be as the Bible portrays? IF.. and that is really really really really really stretching it...God and Jesus were the real thing...
Well, let me put it this way...I'd give it MUCH MUCH THOUGHT... but, that wouldn't do any good anyway...there are just somethings in my life I am not willing to give up that the bible calls sins...sooooooooo to hell I'd go..cause one has to abide by ALL the bloody rules..right?!?!?!

 

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BUT... let me ask you this... do you not think that God and Jesus are pretty egotistical???
What do you make of the tantrums also? Well now...I don't like what these people are doing so I am just gonna kill them..even though it goes against one of the 10 commandments (strange, huh?)
Worship me..praise me...don't you know I am worthy of it???? *gag*

 

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TS,

She did it! See? She just said it again! I know what particular sin she is referring to, but it is irrelevant which one. I had about a gazzillion to reconcile myself and still do.

Here's the way I approached it...I didn't understand all of God's laws when I was saved, or when I decided that I believed anyway. I understood enough for me to honestly say to myself that I could NOT deny the truth any longer. So what I did, was not focus so much on changing myself, but to pray for forgiveness of those sins I understood that I had committed, and even those that I didn't. I prayed for truth, and for the guidance of the Holy Spirit in Jesus name. The Holy Spirit and faith in Jesus does WONDERS for reconciling God's laws and explaining the word of God to your heart. When you believe in God, your entire PERSPECTIVE changes. Try to imagin if you truly believed. I think that many of you would have a difficult time doing that as you are so confused as to what the teachings are and mean. But believe me, the change in PERSPECTIVE OR PERCEPTION is what fosters understanding and enlightenment to the word of God. If any of you know about witchcraft, or some other spiritual practices that involve the power of our minds or our thoughts, and even science backs up the fact that there is no action without thought. Thought drives everything, and your perceptions induce particular thoughts. The message of God and the laws of God are to explain the INTENT behind all things and all actions, and beginning with all thoughts. If your intent is pure and of God in your thoughts, then so will be your actions. I'm talking in circles again. Woe is me. Ok, the realization that there is a God, changes your perceptions (in a humbling fashion to be sure), which changes your intentions (to glorify God in everything you do), which in turn changes your behavior. It's almost like magic. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that changing your behavior is not something that is as difficult as you would imagine it to be once you are saved in Christ. For example, and Flash you know this story well, I've told you guys about the kind of sex life I'm used to right? Well, especially in marriage, that's the ONE thing that me and my husband did NOT have any problems with. Well, now since we're separated, the well runneth dry, and Lori is one horny puppy. It would be very, very, very, very, and did I mention how very easy it would be for me to hop on down to the local watering hole and find me a warm body for the night? Very easy. And to justify doing so based on what an absolute dick my husband's been lately? Very easy. Do I want to do that? NO F'ING WAY!!!!!!!! Why? I have absolutely NO DESIRE TO that's why. It would be not only futile, as I know from past experience, it would also be a direct sin against my God, and that is the LAST thing that I would ever want to do to Him. He has given me so much. And I KNOW that NO GOOD ever comes from sin, so how could I LOGICALLY want to go out and perpetuate more of the same sin that is ruining our world and our lives at an alarming rate? Why would I? I don't. Not for a gazzillion dollars. Not for the best sex in the whole world. Nothing is worth that. I hope that helps to explain.

------------------
"ET phone home!"
"Uh, hello Satan?"
"Hey, your plan worked great! They all think I'm cute!"

 

BUT, Lori... ahhhhh nevermind...

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Lori,

and your point???????

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Flash,

I think this is a follow-up on a discussion in another thread where Lori and I had indicated that some people have a problem with Jesus' message of right relationships through love as Jesus/God has taught us and which is documented in the New Testament of the Bible. Some "believe" right now, that they would rather "go to hell" than to change their lifestyle because they are too proud, too egotistical, or because it means that they might have to give something up:

I notice that you consider the information given to you by Jesus/God to be "dictatorial" in nature. However, this is simply not the case. God has given us the facts of life... The pros and the cons. God has also given us a free will to live our lives as we choose. Good or bad, Flash, everything has consequences.

If, for example, in the "olden days," you were studying to get a degree and during one of your classes, there was a debate as to whether the world was flat or round. While you were in the class, the instructor allowed the debate to go on freely. However, during the debate, the instructor informed everyone that although we all thought the world was flat at one time and although some of us still want to believe that, the reality is that the world is round.

The instructor informs you that he/she has been given this information by the highest authority, gives you all the information to support the authority's knowledge, but you want more "proof." The instructor informs you that ALL the "proof" you desire will be available to you once you finish the course and get your degree. In the meantime however, the instructor asks you to trust his/her judgement, because he/she has seen this and "knows" it to be true.

In addition, your instructor tells you that this will be a question on your final exam... many in the class object, because they believe that they "know better," regardless of what the "authority" has informed them and they express that "no way in hell" are they going to answer that the world is round. The instructor reminds them that their "belief" that the world is flat, comes from the less-enlightened masses.

The instructor informs them that, of course, how they answer the question is their choice but, that the question is considered so important that it is worth 100% of their grade. The instructor also reminds them that they have worked so hard and come so far... The instructor goes on to tell them that he/she would REALLY like to see them get their degree that they've worked so hard for... And, here is the reality of the situation: If they choose to answer that the world is round, they will pass their final exam and earn their degree. If they choose to answer that the world is flat, however, they will fail their exam and not earn their degree.

Do you consider this, too, to be dictating, Flash?



[This message has been edited by truestory (edited December 30, 1999).]

 

True' - If I may butt in a little bit with your analogy here.

What if the class questioned the instructor about where he was educated, and he sort of 'hemed and hawed' around the subject, and finally ended up listing a university that nobody could find evidence of, except for some old class schedule about 60 years old? But, 'take my word for it, it's true' he says. Would you?

What if the class thought the world was round, and he was the one claiming it was flat? "Answer however you want, but if you say round, you'll fail - I'll give you all proof later, after you've committed to an answer" Would you go ahead and list 'flat' as your answer, even if you've heard "proof" it was round from elsewhere?

I think I'd get a new teacher.

 

Skye,
Very very good point!

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TS,
I'd have to agree with Skye here.
You call it free will..and to a point it is..but on the other hand...
It's like this... God says it is free will..
BUT he is manipulating via fear..that is nothing but being a BULLY... It's like a bank robber that comes in and says..you can give me the money or not..the CHOICE is yours.. however, if you don't..I will kill you. Yeah, pretty much like that.

 

I've seen pictures of the world from space. I'm pretty sure its round.

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Do I think God and Jesus are pretty egotistical? I think Jesus was very humble. Humble enough to give his life for us. He always talked about humility and not serving yourself. Jesus did claim to be the way, the truth, and the life. He said the only way to the father is through him. This may seem egotistical to some but what if its the truth? I may play you a few games of chess and conclude that I am a little better at chess than you. Is this egotistical of me? I don't think so. I'm just stating a fact based on observations. If I said, "I'm the best. Your no good. You can't beat me. Your a loser. You suck. Get a life. I can't believe I beat you so easily, you have to be the stupidest person in the world." Then I'd probably being egotistical. But just stating that I'm a better chess player than you is not being egotistical.

The definition of egotist reads this:
1.The tendency to speak or write of oneself excessively or boastfully.
2.An inflated sense of ones own importance.

God may be considered egotistical using the first definition. His holiness is mentioned a 'few' times in the bible. But looking at the second definition: God is God and he knows it. Can God have an inflated sense of his own importance? God is what sustains us. He created everything. His importance speaks for itself. He is all important. Without him there is nothing. God says be holy for I am holy. This is a true statement.

God may be considered egotistical by the definition above but its not in a negative way as the question implied.

The tantrums? God punishes sin. Is it considered a tantrum when police officers raid a drug dealers house?

The ten commandments and killing? There seems to be a slight difference between killing and murdering.

The hebrew word used for murder or kill, depending on the version you use, usually refers to a premeditated and deliberate act in the 10 commandments. It seems there is a differnce between killing someone so you can marry their wife and killing someone in war or in the case capital punishment.


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there are just somethings in my life I am not willing to give up that the bible calls sins...sooooooooo to hell I'd go..cause one has to abide by ALL the bloody rules..right?!?!?!
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As Lori mentioned a lot of things will be miraculously taken from you. Being a christian isn't about following rules and regulaions. Its having a realtionship with Jesus. Don't expect to become a christian and drop every one of your bad habits instantly. Some will be taken from you without your consent. The desire that you had for certain things will just disappear. You have to ask God to show you the truth. Say I disagree with this. It goes against everything that i've ever known or been taught. How can this be so? God will teach you.

I remember a story I was told. One person was witnessing to some girl and she said she couldn't possibly become a christian because she had a HUGE crush on a musician and becoming a christian meant she had to give that up. Well, thats what she thought anyways. She was told she didn't have to give that up. She was told christianity is about having a relationship with Jesus, not a bunch of rules and regulations. She became a christian and sure enough her crush just disappeared. It was gone. To live in Christ means your old self has died. You don't neccesarily kill your old self. Itmiraculously disappears when you accept Jesus into your heart. Its pretty bizarre but lots of people will testify that this is the case. A lot of people who were not raised in a Christian home and later became a
christian can testify to this.

Vinnie

Praise Jesus!!!

 

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It's like a bank robber that comes in and says..you can give me the money or not..the CHOICE is yours.. however, if you don't..I will kill you.
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God's motive and the bank robbers motive is totally different. Aside from that the smart thing to do would be to give him the money.

God created us for a reason. Life is like a test. You can pass or fail. If you pass you go to heaven. If you fail you go to hell. Possibly in a hand basket

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Is hell a literal lake of burning sulfer? Probably not. Its probably more like separation from God. In the end you'd be getting what you wanted all along.

We have a choice to accept God or to reject Him. Each choice yields different consequences.

I have a qustion for you flash.

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there are just somethings in my life I am not willing to give up that the bible calls sins...
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Do you not think that if God did create the entire physical universe he is a bit smarter than we could ever be? He gave us our conscience and laid down certian rules and regulations. Don't you think he would know what is right and what is wrong a little better than we could? I've changed my mind about a few things. I disagreed with the bible in a few areas but I had to come to the conclusion that I was wrong and God was right. Logic tells me that God knows more than me and sees things better.

Vinnie

Praise Jesus!!!

 

Back to the bank robber thing. God isn't just giving you once chance or 2 or 3 like a bank robber will. He gives you an entire lifetime that is filled with tons and tons of chances to accept him.

Vinnie

Praise Jesus!!!

 

Ok Vinnie... I appreciate all the time and effort you have put into replying..I sincerely do... Let me clear something up for you though.
I do not believe in the God that is described in the bible... second, I believe that Jesus was a man..and was real..but not the son of God...
So for me..it is not a matter of being convinced that Jesus is the truth, life, and way...and don't worry about the sin thing...
as if I believe in him..cause I don't.
I am 100% sold on the Spirit of Truth though... for me this Spirit is my main focus.

 

I know that flash. My whole post was based on an 'if.' A big 'if' as you put it

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...and don't worry about the sin thing...
as if I believe in him..cause I don't.
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The sin thing question I asked also came from the 'if' perspective. I wanted an answer that assumed this 'if' was true. It was kind of like my original post. Just another question added to it.

Vinnie

Praise Jesus!!!

 

ok, ok, ok..you got me there

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umm..what can I say LOL

 

Flash,

I do not consider myself bullied because God gives me information and allows me to decide for myself.

Each time I read your phrases: Spirit, Spirit of Truth, Spirit of the Truth, etc... I think of God, who is all of those things. Thank you.

In the words of Jesus Christ:

"But the hour is coming, and is now here, when true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and truth; and indeed the Father seeks such people to worship him. God is Spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and truth."

I think you're borrowing from God here, Flash. By the way, notice that there is no "requirement" to worship God. If you are going to worship God, though, it must be done in the Spirit of the Truth!

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hmmm.. how am I REALLY suppose to take that statement?
LOL

I didn't borrow that from God, TS.. come on now...LOL The Spirit of Truth (not God)
is different from your God in many ways...
and this spirit doesn't even seek worshipers.

 

Skye,

That was not an option and you would not get your degree.

Unfortunately, limbo is not an option for you either. You know of God, of Jesus Christ and the way to salvation according to God's message.

If you choose to ignore it, then your only option is self-inflicted eternal damnation.

 

TS,
what you said to Skye is a touch much..don't ya think?

What if someone came out here and told you
about how your not going to heaven because it doesn't exist..so you are waisting your time and energy... to you.. that's false...
but... ahh..nevermind

 

Flash,

I just wanted to let you know that it sounds to me like you are speaking about God who Jesus referred to many times throughout His lifetime as the Spirit, the Truth, the Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of the Truth.

Thanks.

In case you don't realize it, even though you are not "required" to do so, through your words here, you are "worshiping" the Spirit of Truth.

"Worship" is not a dirty word.

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