To all the people who are going to hell in a hand basket...

Skye,

Your beliefs, expressed in a respectful manner, do not offend me.

 

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Skye,

What about Jesus? How do you explain the Bible? How does your faith reconcile the Bible is what I want to know. I ask this because the Bible reconciles yours, and I just think that is a valid point to make. Never stop asking questions and seeking the truth. That is definately a good thing. You'll find it, just don't stop looking.

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"Go Jesus, go! Go Jesus, go!"

I finally get to be the cheerleader that I always wanted to be but could not, as I was not a fluff chick.

 

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Lori -

I believe Jesus did exist, but was a mere mortal, just like you and I. I'm sure he had lots of wonderful things to say, and other than the religious aspects, I think I probably agree with much he had to say.

The bible I see as a series of moralistic stories. Some good, some bad. There are certainally a lot of good lessons contained within those covers, that I can say. I just don't believe it is THE truth, and the only truth. I think it could be A truth. (Does that make any sense? I think I'm describing it poorly...let me know) Aesop's fables are also a set of good stories, I just don't believe they are "true" per se either. True in message, but not in detail.

 

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Skye,

I heard you the first time... You object to my making a statement which you disagree with. You somehow find my statement in contrast to your new-found belief to be offensive.

Yet, you feel perfectly comfortable in repeatedly making the statement that "There are many Gods."

Does that mean that I have the right to object to your statement, "There are many Gods," call it "crap" and insist that you were unkind and close-minded because you continue to make that statement?

I could be wrong, but based on what I have experienced previously, I believe that if I were to object, you would call me unkind and close-minded.

That, though, is not WHY I don't object. I don't object because this is the type of forum where such statements are appropriate and I am not going to object to your right to state your religious belief.

Yes, I might disagree with your statement, as you do to mine, that does not mean that I am unkind or closing myself off from understanding your belief.

What I do object to is disrespect and trying to make someone out to be a shameful person because they disagree with you.

As a matter of fact, you have flip-flopped your position on a number of matters over the past couple of months and it would be very difficult for anyone not to disagree with you.

For example:

It was not too long ago, Skye, that you criticized any organized religion, and, in particular, an entire belief system... Christianity... which you now say is not your problem (is that because you have now found a "religion" which you don't want others to criticize the way you did theirs?) You now say that your problem is with the "followers."

With respect to Christianity a short time ago, your statement was:

"My beef is with Christianity, not the God, because I don't believe it/he/she/whatever exists."

At that time, although you complained bitterly and disrespectfully about God and the negative things that you believed that He (who you claimed did not exist) had done to you and others, you at least had the respect to speak about God with capitalization.

Also, at that time, you expressed a disbelief in ANY god.

Shortly thereafter, however, you started believing that MANY gods existed. In the beginning of THAT change in your belief systems, you at least had the respect to continue to refer to God with capital letters and gods and goddesses with lowercase letters.

Now, that too has changed. You now choose to elevate gods and goddesses to the level of God.

There are quite a few others changes that I could discuss, Skye, but I think you get my drift.

I brought up the question about lying to yourself and others, because I think you need to address this with yourself.

Just my opinion, Skye, based on what I have been observing.


P.S.

Sorry for adding to the length of this post, but there is something else that I would like to put to rest with you... You seem to be hung up on a "nonsense" comment and somehow attribute it to my having called your beliefs "nonsense." Review the thread, that was not the case. What DID happen was that you took an analogy of mine about God and twisted it into an unrecognizable state and then indicated that you would not want to get a degree in such "nonsense." I pointed out that it was you who had turned the "analogy" into "nonsense." It was not directed at your beliefs!


[This message has been edited by truestory (edited December 31, 1999).]

 

<img src ="http://www.newcreations.net/3d/images/bluenotes/note5w_ss.gif">

Who made who, who made you?
Who made who, ain't nobody told you?
Who made who, who made you?
If you made them and they made you
Who picked up the bill, and who made who?
Ain't nobody told you
Who made who, who turned the screw?


Don't mind me - just in a bit of a musical mood today...

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www.indigenousrocks.com

 

Oxygen,

Thanks for the revealing analogy!

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My experience has been quite different, in that Jesus came into my life in a much more mature state.

Perhaps he got bored sitting in the drawer, or where ever it was that you put him... LOL !!!

Anyway, if you don't mind my asking... If He had served you well up to a certain point, what was it that caused you not to continue to grow "with" Jesus? What was it that caused you to believe that his service was no longer of any value to you?

 

True'-

I will be the first to admit that my perspective has changed since I have first begun posting here. What you are pointing out is merely the progression of my beliefs.

When I didn't believe in your God at all, who cares if I was posting with a capital "G" or a lowercase one? I was referring to what I believed was a myth anyway. "God" is a name, as far as I'm concerned, and should be capitalized when speaking of someone (something) by that name.

I have grown a bit, and now believe that your God does exist, though not in the form you believe he does.

Before I didn't believe in the God and Goddess (MY God and Goddess) as I do now. If we are talking about respect, I now capitalize my dietie's names due to respect to them. Now I DO believe in God, just not the one you believe in. Therefore I find a need to specify "your God" or "the Christian God" because I now see there is a difference. I am not in any way trying to diminish your beliefs, just trying to be clear in a forum where the word is all you see, no body language or inflections are available to clarify meaning. If I were to begin to refer to God, meaning the one the Jewish favor, or the Hindu, or any other besides your own, would you feel I was being disrespectful by saying "The Jewish God" or "the Hindu God"?

I do not 'choose to elevate gods and goddesses to the level of God', as you put it. I just now percieve things differently, and see our respective dieties to be different sides of the same coin, so to speak. I have not elevated anything, I don't have that kind of power to promote or demote the gods. Have I ever called your God by a lowercase letter? Aside from when I am speaking of him as "one of the gods"? If I have, it was not intentional - God is the name for your diety, as I have mentioned before, and in that sense it should be capitalized. I think your objection might be that I lump him in as "one of the gods", when you believe ("know") that he is the ONE "God", above all others. That is NOT my perception, and if I were to begin acting like it was, I'd be lying.

The other quote, where I said I had a problem with "Christianity, not the God...", well, you got me there. I think I was referring to the followers rather than the faith at large, I don't really remember, but I think I misspoke myself there. And, at the time, I didn't believe in your God. I still don't like a lot of the actions and rules attributed to the Christian God, but I am beginning to think that that's mankinds distortions of the true message. I also was experiencing a bad bit of luck at that time, and was excessively bitter. I certainally apologize for that. (I mean it, I'm not being sarcastic)

You have seen a big change in me happen in just the duration of my posts here. Maybe that makes me seem unstable to you, maybe not. You can see for yourself that I am still learning, still developing my world-view. I will probably never stop. I have a lot to learn still, this world holds mysteries I will probably never crack. But I'm going to keep on striving to learn more, and if that means I change my mind about things every now and then, I'll just have to learn to live with that. I'm not going to stick to any one theory when it becomes outdated or disproven, even one of my own.

So when you ask me to check myself for honesty, I can tell you pretty confidently that I am more brutally honest with myself than I would ever think to be with anyone else. I know I've made mistakes, I certainally never claimed to be perfect. I'm sure I've caused you grief, and that was not ever my intention.

There, see? I told you I could take personal criticizm!

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<img src ="http://www.newcreations.net/3d/images/bluenotes/note4_ss.gif">

Okay - here's one more appropriate to this thread:

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No stop signs, speed limit
Nobody's gonna slow me down
Like a wheel, gonna spin it
Nobody's gonna mess me round
Hey Satan, payed my dues
Playing in a rocking band
Hey Momma, look at me
I'm on my way to the promised land

I'm on the highway to hell
(Don't stop me)


(Just trying to lighten it up a bit, ya'll!)



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www.indigenousrocks.com

 

Skye,

Thanks for your response. Rather than to continue to focus on differences, I'd like to focus on things in common. Maybe this will help.

When I speak to the Father, and then to the Son and then to the Holy Spirit, am I really speaking to three separate entinties? No! I am speaking to "God, Our Creator", to "Jesus, Our Lord," to the "Spirit of the Truth" or whatever name you want to use to describe the Omnipotent One.

If you accept the similarity, why then, do you consider your religion to be polytheistic and Christianity to be monotheistic?

 

Searcher,

Before I forget... Thanks so much for the music!

I am on my way out to New Year's Eve dinner with hubby, family and friends.

Please pray that it is not my last supper!

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On a more down-to-earth note... May this coming year be the most wonderful that you have ever experienced!

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Thanks again and... God Bless Everyone!

 

You're welcome, TS! Drive safely - it's crazy out there!! If I don't hear from you again tonight, have a safe and happy New Year!!

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www.indigenousrocks.com

 

Well Vinnie, I'm glad it DOESN'T EXIST!!

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I was just trying to point out how LOVING and FORGIVING your God is...and while I'm thinking about it- TS, OUR GOD??? NO, NOT MINE.... Anyway, you and others have so quickly jumped to make excuses for YOUR God's actions.... "ohhhhhhh...the bible is not to be taken literally.... God is love...God is peace...joy.. blah blah blah"

Yeah??? You totally came up with a lame answer regarding the kill/murder thing too.
Sorry, but when your God flooded the earth...
not only did her kill/MUDER the sinful adults! It would also be every CHILD...every
BABY! Talk about one low-life pissed off God to actually take the life of a CHILD or BABY. Yeah, I know...there is an EXCUSE for that one too, right?

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Wow...like I don't know.

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Maybe it has to do with the fact we do not like the greater than thou superior pompous attitude, dude.

 

Searcher,

exactly!

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Searcher,

And I was so hoping that we could just leave AC/DC back in the last millenium. Woe is me.

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Those three chords they know are getting soooooooooooo old. They weren't even good when they were popular? You'll have to excuse my ranting, but I live in a redneck town that has really sh oops crappy redneck radio. It's frustrating.

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Happy New Year everybody! Weren't the celebrations around the world cool?????

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"Go Jesus, go! Go Jesus, go!"

I finally get to be the cheerleader that I always wanted to be but could not, as I was not a fluff chick.

[This message has been edited by Lori (edited January 01, 2000).]

 

Sorry Fluffy, wouldn't know about the New Year's celebrations around the world...was too busy listening to AC/DC play the only 3 chords they know.

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Fluffy!? AAAACCCKKKKTTUUHH! Sorry, hairball.

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------------------
"Go Jesus, go! Go Jesus, go!"

I finally get to be the cheerleader that I always wanted to be but could not, as I was not a fluff chick.

 

Well, it looks like ExoSci was Y2K compliant! Horay! (Pat on the back for you, DaveW)

True'-

Lesse, monotheistic vs. polytheistic. Well, I have heard Christianity commonly defined as monotheistic over and over...

I thought the take was that those three (son, father, holy ghost) were part of a single God. I think the difference might be that I percieve two Gods (one God, one Goddess) that are part of something even larger. I wouldn't call this life force, or "All" a diety or God, just a force, like gravity.

Hey, does this mean we're friends again?