To Gun or not to Gun?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Bowser, Oct 13, 2016.

  1. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I suggest you get a home alarm system. Cops are always the best solution. I don't think you need a gun for self defense if the police respond quickly. They've got the guns and are trained to use them. Something else you need to consider, if you have a gun you become a potential police target. When they arrive they don't know who the good guys are or who the bad guys are.

    I have guns, but they are hunting guns.
     
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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well, here is the thing, if you shoot him you are the guy who gets stuck cleaning up all the blood. Shooting people is messy business. You're gonna be cleaning blood and guts for weeks - probably have to repaint the walls and you might need to get new carpet. It's a mess. Then there is the smell. There is nothing like the smell of cordite and blood. And then you have the police reports to deal with, it's a lot of hassle and it's gonna take a lot of your time.

    It's much easier to have the police deal with him peacefully. It's best if you can deal with it peacefully. You don't want anybody getting shot. I was an EMT in a very violent city early on in my career. I've seen many gun shot victims in my day.

    You don't want to shoot someone if you don't have to and most of the time you don't have to.
     
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  5. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    I haven't had to shoot anyone yet. I have had to draw down on a couple of people, but fear is a powerful motivator. I'm lucky. Fearlessness can be stupid, but it is also a powerful tool.

    As I said elsewhere, or earlier in this thread, when you need help in seconds, the police are only minutes away. Reasonable is good, but need is the motivator.
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    There isn't. So?

    Suppose there was, the cost and safety hit would outweigh it considerably.
    You are simply wrong about that. It's a good idea - quite obviously and substantially safer than any of the alternatives except hiring pros, and that merely shifts the hazard unto somebody else.
    Sure. But you're still taking more risk than he was - a lot more. And paying a higher cost in time , money, and trouble.
    Especially with the tree and chain saw combination. That's really dangerous, even when nobody's climbing ladders and roping themselves off twenty feet in the air next to a power line.

    It is kind of interesting how quickly one reaches the boundaries of rationality in this issue. The word "gun" shorts the circuits faster than any other I can think of.

    Here's a bet: if anybody ever invents a piece of gear that makes a chain saw as safe to handle as a shotgun, OSHA will make it mandatory - even with no ladders, ropes, or power lines anywhere in the vicinity.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
  8. Stoniphi obscurely fossiliferous Valued Senior Member

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    Stainless Steel Smith and Wesson J-frame 5 shot revolver with a 'crimson dot' laser sight here. Standard .38 rounds for normal carry, hollow point .357 mag loads for more serious situations.
     
  9. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    If you must shoot:
    A little advice:

    A clean kill is best. If you wound 'em anywhere in the trunk, it would probably be best to go outside(take the weapon with you) and wait for the cops and ambulance. Watching someone screaming nd crying and writhing about in agony is most likely not something you want wandering about in your memory circuits when you are trying to get a good night's sleep.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
  10. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well here is the thing, you need to be able to hit your intended target else the gun is of little value in a confrontation. Guns like that aren't for the novice or everyone. You can do a lot of damage with a lesser weapon if you know where to shoot. It's all about delivery. Guns are of no use if you cannot deliver a bullet to its intended target. You can have the biggest gun in the world, but if you cannot put it on target, it's of little practical use.
     
  11. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    So nothing. Some people think stupid things are good ideas.
    Feel free to trim your trees with a shotgun (as long as you are miles from anyone else, of course.) Feel free to trim your shrubs with a handheld lawnmower. Feel free to check your gas lines with a match (again, provided you live far from anyone else.) Feel free to use a cordless drill to remove a stubborn bit of food from your teeth. Feel free to use a hairdryer to keep yourself warm and dry in the rain. Wine bottle with broken cork? Hold it in one hand, grab your Glock in the other and remove the cork quickly and easily. It's your life.

    It is somewhat irresponsible, however, to tell other people that those things are good ideas (IMO.)
     
  12. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Do you have a handgun, so can speak from experience? Is it your contention that no one should have the skill and training if you don't have it? Or is this just sage advice?

    I don't get you sometimes...
     
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  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Just advice. There's no point in having a gun you can't use. Lower caliber weapons are easier to use. High power weapons aren't for everyone.

    If you are going to get a gun you should know how and be able to use it. There is no one gun fits all.
     
  14. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    When it comes to Americans and guns, no idea is too insane to be true.
     
  15. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Lethal potato guns are the up-and-coming threat. Get yours today!
     
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  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    See, stuff like that simply highlights the ignorance behind all this magic evil gun crap. Even if it's hyperbole, it does that - because nobody can tell. Poe's Law applies to the anti-gun folks.

    Miles? Do you really not know anything about shotguns, or are you just pulling my chain?
    No, it's informed. It's far safer to trim the tree branches back from the power line running down your driveway with a shotgun, than with a chain saw and whatever rigging and lifting gear you happen to own. Safer for everybody, including your neighbors - and if you use iron shot, as you should, safer for everything else as well. This is simply physical fact.

    It's also cheaper, faster, etc, if anybody cares once their brains have gone tilt after tripping over the word "gun".
     
  17. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

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    In the ideal situation, yes, the police are the best solution. Regardless of the speed in which they arrived, there was time for the situation to become chaotic. It was good fortune that the intruder was more frightened of confrontation than I. And if it had come to a physical contest, I'm not certain I would have been the victor--he was a big guy with the addition of drug-induced psychosis.
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,646
    Why do you think guns are magic or evil? They are just tools. More dangerous than most tools, but ultimately just tools. Like any other dangerous tool, they must be used properly.
    Then go for it - and make sure you have good medical insurance. People like yourself keep ER doctors in business, so at least you're doing your part to support the economy.
     
  19. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    So you didn't need a gun. The police handled it just fine.

    And you're going to decide on the spur of the moment when facing an intruder just what "defensive" action is reasonable, are you?

    So, you offer the intruder the door while you wave your gun at him, but he's too spaced out on drugs to take the hint. So then what? Weren't you better off calling the police in the first place rather than seeking out a confrontation with somebody who is unpredictable?

    And what if the guy decided to come at you despite your threatening him with a gun? You're happy with shooting him dead in that case? You're going to make that decision in the stress of the moment, and you're sure everything will be just fine afterwards?
     
  20. Dr_Toad It's green! Valued Senior Member

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    Seeking a confrontation? The dude came into a house that he didn't own.

    I would shoot him dead if he didn't make the right decision, but considering that he was fucked up, I might have given him the chance to back off as well.

    That's why we have weapons. To have the edge in the situations when the police are fifteen minutes away. Don't you get that?
     
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  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    I don't. You do, apparently. Why do you think tree trimming with a shotgun is more dangerous than with a chain saw?
    Tools you refuse to see the uses of - even the very safe ones, like tree trimming in certain circumstances.

    The people keeping the ER docs in practice are the amateur chainsaw tree trimmers. Talk about dangerous - -

    Statistically, chainsaw operation is the most dangerous job, and among the most dangerous activities, in the US. Shotguns are safer than chain saws in general - for tree trimming along a driveway's power line: much, much, safer.

    This is obvious. So the question is: why is it in question? Why this odd mental glitch, that occurs when the topic of guns is broached and almost never otherwise?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
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  22. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Yes.
     
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  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Yes, and Bowser had a choice to confront the intruder himself, or to take some other course of action, like calling the police.

    And you'd be able to tell in the spur of the moment whether he was fucked up or not, would you? You'd do a quick psychological assessment, and then decide whether to open up on him with both barrels.

    I get that you're afraid of strangers threatening you and you believe that a gun can protect you without risk to yourself. I also get that you're wary of trusting in your society's law enforcement mechanisms and so would prefer to take the law into your own hands. I get that this is a peculiar trait that is not uncommon in the United States and is thought of as normal rational behaviour there.

    Personally, I'd be somewhat worried about damaging those power lines you mentioned, shooting them up with my shotgun. If I was driving past your neighbour's house while he was doing his tree clearing, I'd have to take a few "only in America" snaps for my holiday album, because it's a behaviour so bizarre I doubt I'd see it anywhere else in the world. To you, though, apparently it is normal.

    I would imagine there would be far more gun injuries clogging up the ERs of your country than chainsaw injuries. No doubt you have the stats, though, so I'm happy to be corrected.

    How about the accidental death statistics? More from guns, or from chainsaws?

    Then let us all hope that you're an exemplar of calm under pressure, an excellent judge of human nature, able to keep a cool head even when you're frightened. And let's hope that all the other gun owners whom you might visit to borrow a cup of sugar are the same as you.
     

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