To hell with hybrids!

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by countezero, May 22, 2009.

  1. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Get America swtich from gasoline to diesel would be harder.

    [/QUOTE]For me, a hybrid better totally shame a fossil fueled vehicle when it comes to fuel mileage or there's no reason to have one, so your little diesel hybrid better get at least 65-70 mpg (and have comparable power) before I would consider one over a Jetta TDI.
    And you can't use emissions as an argument either because we've gotten internal combustion engine harmful emissions down to damn near zero.[/QUOTE]

    A hybrid drive train will increase the millage of any ICE by ~25%, so if your getting 57 mpg on diesel you would get 71 if it was a hybrid diesel.

    Again Hybirds are not a "game changer", they are really a wage to getting battery production up for plug in hybrids and then full electrics.
     
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  3. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    From what I understand that's a very common practice in the USA as well. But you still need someone to actually do the work in the lab. I imagine a large amount of routine lab work would be amenable to automation, but most of the stuff I do could not be automated in the foreseeable future.

    Edit: Actually if you can just send the data over the internet (or whatever) to a doctor and have him examine it and give a diagnosis, I would have to question whether or not the doctor is even necessary. I suspect that in most situations a properly-programmed computer could do just as good a job.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2009
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  5. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    You mean the Metro that had a manual transmission and no air conditioner???
     
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  7. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    That's the one. I think fully loaded it would have been less than ten grand, I'm not really sure. But I was still in college and was surprised they even gave me the loan for the 6 grand. Plus, I'd never had air at that point, so I didn't miss it.

    Nowadays I feel like I'm roughing it if I drive a car without the remote for the door lock.
     
  8. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    Mike,

    I agree but I think it's going to happen a lot faster maybe 10 years max. The reason is the battery tech is there and the mass production of these batteries will bring the cost down. However as far as replacing the ICE cars, yes that will take a long time, for many reasons.

    I think that in 20 years nobody will be buying new pure ICE cars.

    Yes, well that is what Tesla's plan was to sell expensive cars to rich people so they could afford to build a commuter car that most could afford. The roadster is an insane speed demon car, many will pay way more than 100k to afford an ICE of equal 0-60 times. They are also using over the counter batteries that have already been far exceeded by newer batteries.

    The real question which relates to your complaint is why didn't the big boys make them, they could readily mass produce all electrics at far lower pricing than Tesla could ever hope to. But they probably would make them look ugly as shit.
     
  9. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Rapid conversion from fossil fuels would energize and transform the US economy (not to mention foreign policy) beginning right now- if we had the vision. If we would only turn our greatest challenges to our advantage, our public investments in major manufacturing corporations would enforcibly stipulate complete and immediate transformation of our industries into world leadership here at the outset of the post-petroleum era. The USA could thus stand up economically, and do it with similar commanding leverage, as we did through our WWII mobilization. We would be fully capable of meeting the challenge, if we had the vision.
     
  10. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Where's the energy?
     
  11. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    It's in our open-access Fusion Reactor (Sol) and we know how to get all the energy we need (and not only from direct PV). The major remaining holdup is overgrown and dysfunctional corporations who can't accept a resource that can't be centrally controlled or monopolized.
     
  12. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    LOL, that's what I thought. It's still an unrealized fantasy.
     
  13. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Fantasizing about the sustainability of fossil-based energy (also Solar in origin BTW) is far more unrealistic than looking to the ready alternatives. The cost per energy unit of solar vs. petroleum are about to cross over (likely in a decade) and there's no going back. Considering environmental costs, we're long past parity.
     
  14. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I don't disagree about the need to move past fossil fuels, I only disagree that the scale of energy alternatives can equal our demand anytime in the near (30-50 years) future. Thus we are faced with a drastic and potentially catastrophic reduction in available energy which will cause all sorts of reverberations in every sector of the economy, if it hasn't already.
     
  15. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    I disagree Spider. Once the crap is about to hit the fan, they will dust off the 500 mpg carberator from the dungeon shelf and reveal anti-gravity technology

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    Seriously though. We can produce all the electricity we need at a cost of investment and land sacrifice. That will have to be done. But as long as we shift most of our transportation needs away from fossil fuels we should be ok.

    We can produce an almost endless amount of synthetic fuels with coal but again it would take a major investment in infrastructure, better to spend that on cleaner burning electricity generation. Also, since electricity is basically everywhere at least in the U.S., creating or adding charging stations would be a piece of cake.

    So either way unless we make the investment we will be in trouble.

    I just think every time gas spikes higher and higher people will figure it out. We might be dumb but were not stupid. Oh wait, nevermind.
     
  16. mikenostic Stop pretending you're smart! Registered Senior Member

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    Carburetors suck ass. Fuel injection is exponentially better and more efficient.


    How are we going to mine the coal? Have you seen what strip mining does to land...and even mountains?
     
  17. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    The cost is the issue- especially at a time when we don't have a whole lot of money to invest. We are already borrowing close to the limits of practicality, and not much of that is even devoted to rebuilding our passenger train system, much less create a whole new energy infrastructure.
     
  18. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    Mike,

    Of course. My comment was a joke, didn't you ever here about the 100 mpg capable carburetor in the 70's that the car companies were keeping from us ?

    Which was my point to build for electricity generation instead. I was just making points to our ability to create power sources one way or the other. We can in fact produce all the fuel we need, and I agree that mining coal is the 2nd worst option. Either way it will take a major infrastructure investment to accomplish long term needs.

    Either way it will take energy to get energy.

    Guess what will happen if we don't shift away from the ICE powered car ?
     
  19. mikenostic Stop pretending you're smart! Registered Senior Member

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    Oh I know it was. I just have a strong disdain for them.
    Although a 100 mpg carb doesn't seem impossible; unlike fuel injection, carbed engines will run on fumes.



    It will, but we are going to have to make the sacrifice sometime. But I'd rather do it now in a 'preventative maintenance' situation than wait until it's too late and have to be forced to implement it in a 'repair' situation.
     
  20. jpappl Valued Senior Member

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    Mike,

    Couldn't agree more.

    Spider,

    Which why I am so pissed off by all the money we have wasted on short term solutions that have put us in this situation.

    There is no alternative, we either keep going forward or we give up. Going forward will be filled with more waste and mistakes and successes, giving up is unacceptable and not in our nature.

    The question is will we be wise enough (cough) to figure it out in time to make the adjustments needed or not ?
     
  21. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    We will be giving up our accustomed way of life, that much is certain.
     
  22. mikenostic Stop pretending you're smart! Registered Senior Member

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    We either do that now voluntarily or we leave it to our children to do it out of necessity (and possibly despair).
     
  23. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Guess what we are the child who have to do it out of necessity, oil peak in 2008:

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    Its only cheap now because the world is in a depression and it will only stay cheap as long as we stay in a depression.
     

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