Too FAT to have babies??

Discussion in 'Science & Society' started by S.A.M., Aug 30, 2006.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5296200.stm

    The British Fertility Society is recommending women with a body mass index of 36 and over should not be allowed access to fertility treatment.

    Being overweight can put both the health of the mother and child at risk through problems such as gestational diabetes and high blood pressure.

    Current NHS guidelines say overweight women should be warned of the health risks, but do not impose any ban on treatment.

    The BFS, which represents health fertility professionals, also recommended single women and same sex couples be given the same priority as heterosexual couples.

    Clare Brown, chief executive of Infertility Network UK said: "From our own surveys and from the many, many calls we receive from patients, we know only too well that there are still unacceptable inequalities in the funding of treatment around the country and couples face huge difficulties in accessing services."

    But Josephine Quintavalle, of the organisation Comment on Reproductive Ethics, told BBC Five Live limited NHS budgets needed to be focused on treatment for groups which would benefit the most.

    Jo Webber, deputy director of policy at the NHS Confederation which represents over 90% of NHS organisations, said: "We recognise the distressing circumstances that couples with infertility problems find themselves in.

    "However, primary care trusts receive a fixed allocation of money to deliver all the services for their local community and have to take difficult decisions on competing priorities."



    Thoughts?
     
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  3. perplexity Banned Banned

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    I suspect that fat women are "infertile" because their husbands lost their enthusiasm, so to speak.

    Is there a correlation between the incidence of pregnancy and body weight?

    --- Ron.
     
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  5. certified psycho Beware of the Shockie Monkey Registered Senior Member

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    You can never be to fat to have anything.
     
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  7. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Infertility in women is linked to abnormal body weight.

    In women with low body fat (may not necessarily be underweight, e.g. marathon runners), decrease in body fat below a certain level will decrease estrogen production and switch off ovulation.

    In women with excess of body fat, there will be excess secretion of estrogens which will also stop ovulation and lead to increased difficulties in getting pregnant.

    Therefore both underweight and obese women have irregular cycles, though the mechanisms are different.

    Slender women metabolize estradiol to 2-hydroxyestrone—an antiestrogen; obese women metabolize estradiol to estriol—a weak estrogen. The rate of metabolic change seems to correlate with the percent of body fat of total body mass. Thus, slender women progressively “turn down” the reproductive cycle until it is “turned off” when the condition of anorexia nervosa (defined as less than 85% of predicted ideal body weight for height) is reached. On the other hand, obese women progressively increase their alternate estrogens—estrone and estriol—until ovulation ceases and they become infertile.

    These conditions are reversible by attaining normal body fat percent. (correlated to normal BMI)

    Menarche (onset of menstruation) is also associated with optimal percent body fat.
     
  8. perplexity Banned Banned

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    So the psychological instinct correlates to the biology, so as not to waste the effort.
     
  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    What about men who prefer anorexic supermodels or very fat women?

    Are they being eased out of the evolutionary process?

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  10. perplexity Banned Banned

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    Presumably so, if they are not so likely to multiply, notwithstanding their going forth.

    --- Ron.
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Hmm it would be interesting to figure out what kind of men prefer women with low reproductive potential.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2006
  12. perplexity Banned Banned

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    Alternative objectives sublimate the sexual urge: Various possessive and creative pursuits feign the perpetuation of the ego.

    --- Ron.
     
  13. Theoryofrelativity Banned Banned

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    http://www.chem-tox.com/infertility/

    Money could be saved on infertility treatmetn if advice was given as to the general causes of infertility (re lifestyle) as well as requests to these women to lose weright if indeed that is part cause of their infertility.

    I know many women with fertility problems, more than without. I am an anomoly amongst those I know in that I had no problem conceiving.

    Check out the link.
     
  14. NightWisp Registered Member

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    I think it is very dangerous for a fat woman to have a baby. I know a woman from work who is obese, and normally women have to wait a few months until late in their pregnancy before they are finally given maternity leave. Well, this woman by order of her doctor, got to have her maternity leave much earlier since she had to be bedridden- lots of rest. I think high blood pressure was a concern, but I don't know all of the details.
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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  16. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Anything that prevents pregnancy is fine by me. Sadly, from what I have seen, being overweight is no limitation.

    Both of these conditions can be benefits in some circumstances. Anorexic models will eventually lose their looks and normalize, and they will be very rich. They will also attract the best mates.

    Women (or men) that can store excess calories as fat have a survival advantage in times of famine. If they didn't, there would be no fat people.
     
  17. Aderyn Registered Member

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    I think most men would prefer a curvier "healthier" woman, instinct tells them that these women are more "fertile". Men who like the super-thin, supermodel types are usually young and susceptible to the trends and fashions of the day and the day says "heroin chic". I think these women are trophy girlfriends. Eventually both will return to the norm, the men marrying curvy women, the supermodel types putting on a bit of body fat.
     
  18. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

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    Gene control, no fat mothers, no fat babies. The fat gene won't pass on. Next expect to hear that homosexuals and minorities cannot have babies.
     
  19. TimeTraveler Immortalist Registered Senior Member

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    Fat people are the new black people.
     
  20. PolitiKane Registered Member

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    Individual Vs. Society

    This is a little iffy, ethically speaking. On the whole I think that it is fine that they implement this policy, this is why.

    Leaving the medical reasons out and just focusing on the socio-political aspect I think that this is an absolutely just policy. It is not prohibiting fat women from having children at there own expense and risk, but it is saying that as a government institution we will not encourage pregnancies that may or may not be dangerous. Also, it is an investment of sorts for the government and if something goes wrong they not only lose out on their investment but must also spend time and money to help the mother and child that were a liability from the beginning. If they die the government has also lost a taxpayer.

    In addition, a government/ society, just like an individual, has the right to make its own image; what it stands for, its policies, etc. Among these include an issue like this. Britain is in effect discouraging obesity as a trait that they wish to be carried on to their progeny. If you don't think that is possible just look as Samoan people, they're all fat. Some societies have done this thru war, genecide, selective breeding, relocation, and many other techniques. This is the slowest but least confrontational way to go about it, but it is not necessarily wrong. You don't want to be fat, or even something as simple as looking preppie, driving a nice car, or not eating mercury. In essence Britain is implementing a multi-pronged plan to control poplutaion, change their genetic make-up, preserve or create a self image, avoid bad investments, avoid medical complications or even death that could have been prevented, and ultimately improve the quality of life for their people and future generations of Brits. The best way to do this is to become American.

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  21. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Gay men. Normal guys want some tits and ass, not a stick figure. I suspect the models are picked by the designers. And are there many male heterosexuals among fashion designers?
     
  22. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    The glories of socialized medicine! He who pays the piper calls the tune. If the government pays for the medical care, the government decides who breeds, who lives, who dies.

    In the US, any fatso can get fertility treatments so long as they can afford it.

    But that's socialism. They always focus on the goodies, the freebies. But they never tell you about the massive power this sort of system gives the government.

    With freedom comes responsibility. Give up the responsibility, give us the freedom.
     
  23. Nickelodeon Banned Banned

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    Private clinics exists too, so any fatso in the UK can get fertility treatments so long as they can afford it.
     

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