Top 10 Misapprehensions about islam...

Well...well. I'm not an apostate, so I can't say, obviously. But clearly it's possible to be a good Muslim and not persecute apostates. Granted, there's textual support for it - but how many Christians run around stoning people these days? Social science can eradicate all memes, given time. I don't know how things are for you Mustafa, but I wish you well.

 

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I agree with much of this post. I think it's fair enough for someone to try and defend their home. However, most of Iraqis that are doing the killing are targeting other Iraqis. I see it as no different than the Arab Jews -vs- Arab Muslims only it's Arab Shia -vs- Arab Sunni. IOW it's just more middle eastern tribal warfare split along religious lines. Historically this has been pretty common actually. IMO the USA invaded Iraq to secure oil. However well that is working out remains to be seen. It also greased the war industry and transferred yet 100s of billions more of Joe American's tax dollars into the hands of the already wealthy well connected elite. Either that or the US government truly are numskulls and thought Saddam had WMD (even though everyone else in the world laughed at that line of BS). :shrug:


When I used the words Islamic Terrorist or Muslims Terrorist I'm referring to Muslims who kills their fellow Citizen in the name of Allah. Like the English London train bombers. The ideology that they believe motivated them is Islam. They murdered their fellow English Citizens in the name of Allah in order to terrorize the wider community. Hence: Islamic Terrorism.

 

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Have you ever thought that there is no ONE type of Islam? There are a lot of DIFFERENT KINDS of Islam.

"Islam" isn't one ideology but a group of ideologies.

I bet some forms of Islam you would think are shit as well. For example: What if you went to a Mosque and the Imam told you that all Jews were pigs and will burn in Hell. That all Shia were sinners and should be killed. That all women who didn't cover their heads should be beheaded.

I bet you'd say that this Imam's form of Islam was shit.

So, it really depends on the type of Islam. Fundamental Islam IMO is shit.

 

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This is the thing. I think a number of white people just 15-20 years ago had some major racist like ideology and a negative opinion of blacks - particularly (but not limited to) the USA. Slowly we are addressing the underlying issues. The idea that the White "race" is somehow better (a common idea in my grandparents generations). The idea that blacks are lazy and stupid and cheat and lie. The idea that there even is a race.

To eradicate racism (which seems to be genetic) we have to pull the fundamental memes out at the root. Attack the ideology. Inoculate through education. This will have to happen about a number of Islamic memes but to do that we have to address Christian memes and Jewish memes. We're just not at that stage yet. But, we will get there. In my lifetime I'm sure.

 

Well put: agreed emphatically. But this is a huge issue. Straw called me out on it on another thread...or was it this thread?... and I had to mumble something vaguely relevant because the issue was enormous. How exactly are we going to change massive memes about prejudice and discrimination?

 

Heh. I probably should mention here: by saying that the problem is enormous, I am neither excusing nor justifying the existence of any such prejudice or counter-prejudice, up to and including wholesale genocide. That seems to be a requirement for my posts these days.

 

The first thing is to start doing something. I like the idea of a educational system where ALL children are required to attend certain subjects. I also like the idea of education being conducted in secular institutions but, that may have to wait (what do the French do?).

Teach kids about Dinosaurs and the age of the earth.
Teach kids about the sources for many religions.
Teach kids about the foundation myths.
Have kids from different religions (say Buddhists working with Muslims) work on projects that force them to confront one another (not in a mean spirited way).
- for example, say the Muslims boy must write 3 things that are the same and 3 things that are different about his religion and Buddhism.
- Then the Buddhist does the same.
* Then they are both asked what they think about these things.
* Then they are both asked how they feel about these things.
* Then they are asked how what the other person thinks makes them feel.
* Then they are asked how what the other person feels makes them feel.

seems simple enough. Over time they become mates (hopefully) and it becomes harder for each to think negatively about the other person's religion. Combined with ethics and morals I think we'd find most kids will natural choose tolerance and acceptance over intolerance and fundamentalism.

Bye Bye Fundamentalism.

Bye Bye Religion.

Hello Xenu

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that is terrorism, and that is what i don't agree 100%
also not only me that don't agree on this, all of us, but, what can we do about it? we can't help them, they must solve their problems alone, so it never come back again, at least maybe they'll solve their problems after a few more fights or war,

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the preisdent who caused all those problems in the world, and the president who harmed the u.s.a. economy reaching almost a dead line where u.s.a. would maybe fall as a world's most strong country,
also wars, invadings, racism, etc... that president is george bush.
and most of you blame obama for this, while obama is doing his best, but u.s.a. is in fact, in a very big problem, if it just stoped sending money to isreil, i mean, they send of their budget to israeil for wars, and they keep invading and preaparing armies, and all that need aloot of money, they could use that money at saving the country, and making a global peace (cause if they were the world's strongest country they could do it, i mean, they are controlling the world) did you notice that u.s.a. started to take it's troops from the countries that it invaded, or sometimes just leave them there and foeget about them, it's because f money problems, because of what they did for humanity, (effcorse i'm always talking about politicians and your goverment, not you the people or citizents of something

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) if you just stopped wars, and stopped funding wars and weapons, you'll surely get stronger again. and solve all your money prob. but no, you just want wars. (not you, i mean your politicians)

yes, that's terrorism, but if they were originally from an invaded country by u.k., and they went to u.k. got the nationality to revenge, hmm, maybe, but, a human being, kills another human being, for no reason (like defending country or self deffence if he had to kill him) and by the name of islam, and allah, is truly a terrorists, in fact, if they weren't doing it by the name of islam or allah, nothing will bother me that much, but what bothers me is that they make people think islam=terrorism and other lies, also the middle eastern countries with their missunderstanding to their own relegion and kind partially fanatism(i don't mean the kind of fanatism when you kill people and do bad stuff, just partially fanatism, means, being closed, and i don't mean the agressive meaning, just talking about the society being closed) in fact, in this world,

[the true muslims, that don't lie, don't kill, don't steel, don't moque, respect all relegions, respect women and respect her like a queen,who do all they can to do their work, or their studies, to struggle for knoledge or to feed his family or to work or to have sucess or to defend his country, is a true muslim indeed.(effcorse human being some times make faults,, we're not perect, but i don't mean the kind of faults where you kill people and make adultury or drink alcohol, he may tryed it once effcorse we are humans we do mistackes but not to drink i again) ]

 

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there are two main kind of islam, the shia(and they have alot of weird habits, they have a day, where they all make them selves covered with cows shit, or mud i don't know wich one i'm not sure) and in the shia, they have aloooot of kinds, while in sunna, even that there's many ways, i'm not going to say kinds cause those ways just have slight differences, for example, that way forbid human and animals pictures, and tnat way don't, you don't actually notice it, they are kinda the same, nothing too different, just for example, in prays, in a way, people for example do 3 "rak'aa"(like the three parts of the pray, you get up, and you go down again is the rak'aa, just like parts) anywya, for example , the way let's call it x, do 3 rak'aa in the morning pray, and the way "y" do 2 rak'aa in the morning pray, not big differences, are almost the same, but effcorse they all have the same quran, there's no versions, even the shia have the same quran, thre's only one quran, only one.

so, if you are going to say how many kins of islam there's is or kinds, i say 2, sunni, and shia, but shia have really weird habits in the relegion, and they have some kind of complexe in the relegion, they have a day, where they hit them selves, everyone hit himself, on his chest, like gorillas but with one head, and i think they cry, cause of things bad they did in past in the first ages of islam, in the khilafa, "khliafa, is when people choose one of the wise people, to elect him to be the khalifa, or kinda a presedent, or a king, but they choose" but shia, wanted to keep ruling for themselves, and here they maked a crime, or fitna means to cheat or to betrate, but islam don't say anything about the style of governense or ruling (just a p.s.) but the khalifa or the khilafa governence style, didnt stay forever, after some ages, (after the first ages of islam) rich people started like to steel the chair of governence, and keep it for their family, like to be a king, and so one, and the arabic muslim civlisation, started to get seperated to many countries and sides,

 

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we do this in tunisia, and other arab muslim countries, but to learn about the other relegions, ins a part of phelosophy when people choose to study relegion in univercity, also this thing is what people learn in his life and from his parents, we study in school and hight school islam, of we are muslims (most of us are muslims, you can all are muslims , exept some minorities of jews) anyway, they teach us the real islam, the peacefull islam, and not the fanatic one, or the extremist one, Bye Bye relegion is not the way to solve it, but making people know why relegion is, and teach them the real islam, not the fanatic one, also what keeps families connected to each others, and not seperated is the relegion, here, when someone gets 18, he don't leave home, he only leave it if he's going to study somewherefar, or going to marry, the family is the country in Tunisia, it's the most important part, and after marriage, people don't get seperated from their families, but the family grows, and we always visit our families, we're always connected, also not driking alcohol drinks, making adultury, drugs, makes our society free of many many many problems, and what keeps all those things steady is relegion, let's look at u.s.a., they have the adultury children numbers like they never were in history, the number of adultury children is very hight, drungs and alcohol problems and family problems are very high, crimes are very high, racism is very popular, sexual problems are high, most of your families are seperated and streached, if i'm wrong, i don't know, mayeb i'm wrong tell me,

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maybe i thik the opposite,

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You don't know Tunisia very well don't you? i don't mean places or sites, i mean the society and the kind of people, and the family and the woman, (and Tunisia is not the only model, also other arab countries)

 

reminds me of the true Scotsman fallacy

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Well, then, it seems we agree on a great many things

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I suppose my point was that there are a lot of interpretations of Islam. I'd say that as many people there are in the world, as how many kinds of Islam there is. Each person makes up their own idea about how to interpret things regardless of if they are Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Shinto etc...

That said, the ideology does color the way they view reality. IMO science is the best way to get at what reality really is

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I may be wrong though.

 

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hmm, i really miss judged you in the bigening,

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and that's not what we just agree on, those are facts, and as far as i know, all people here agree on it, (what do i know, maybe there's two or three don't)

oh, what is true scotsman fallacy ? :shrug:

 

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no, you still didnt understand me,
there's only two, the shia, and the sunni,
shia are in Persias, and they are muslims, but they have a long story, let me make it short, in a few words, betrate, steel, murder. and they beleive that Ali was suposed to be the prophet :shrug:


sunni: is just islam, it's like when you searche on google, and you want to know what islam is, you'll mostly find about sunni, it's the true kind, and you can know it by comparing it to the weird habits of shia,
in sunni, there are ways effcorse, but as i said, are all the same, just a very few slighty differences, and i never noticed any difference, also, in islam, there's only one quran, since 1400 year, and you can compare it with an old quran and you'll find it the same,

no

yeah, it's also predicted 1400 years ago, that one day, it will be alot of kinds in islam, but still not today

no also.

yes, also that's why muslims are not going away of islam, it have many shokin scientific evidences, aloot, and you wan't beleive me if i listed them to you.

also, science does proove how much wrong relegions are, but not to quran

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Muslim terrorists were killing innocent people in the name of Allah LONG before Bush. The Koran COMMANDS them to kill the infidel (Christians and Jews) but this is no longer enough for them. Now they are killing each other.
W was the best POTUS we EVER had. He kept us safe from Muslim terrorists after 911 and was a good, decent, honorable CCR--not like that radical traitor we have now.

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Israel is our dearest ally. The Bible commands us to honor her.
Racism is probably the worst now than it has been in the past 40 years. That's because of 911, the fact that Obama bought the White House with almost a BILLION dollars in dirty, foreign Muslim money, he hates/has disowned his white half, he coddles blacks, Hispanics, Muslims etc but dislikes whites (just like his wife), and criminal aliens have trashed many parts of the country. Americans are dropping the pc bs and looking at statistics. We know who commits the most crime and fills our jails.
We will NEVER have peace as long as Islam exists as a religion. Never.
Most Muslims hate Bush because he declared the war on terror after 911. He took out the world's worst terrorist. He won the war in Iraq but THEY restarted it.

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We will stop the wars if Muslim terrorists quit starting them.
We saw "true" Muslims on 911. We don't want to see anymore.

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If these claims are facts as you stated in the beginning of above extraction, can you give some supporting evidence. Let me remind your "factual" claims that I need some evidence:

1. Obama used foreign (and Muslim) money to buy the White House (win elections)
2. Obama hates/has disowned his white half
3. He coddles blacks, Hispanics, Muslims etc. (I will also need for clear separation of these people and with your criteria of "white" please)
4. (just like his wife)? How does his wife shows this?
5. finally, something on "the criminal aliens have trashed many parts of the country" claim.

Thank you.

 

That looks very much like Islamic propaganda, full of fabrications and platitudes.

 

You're joking, right? You REALLY don't know all that is fact? I've already posted proof a dozen times. You can google it and find it yourself. Here's a little help:
http://www.google.com/search?q=news...s:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7
He checked "black/African-American/Negro" on his census. He is not black. He is half white.
He is trying to give criminal aliens amnesty. He coddles Muslims at every opportunity. He has forbidden us to use the words "Muslim terrorist". He is an apologist to the Muslim world. He bowed in submission to Abdullah. He refused to call Hasan a terrorist.
Read his wife's college thesis. She despises whitey.
Criminal aliens trash neighborhoods, steal ID's & SS#'s, steal education/ housing/healthcare etc. They fill our prisons, have killed more innocent Americans DUI than the war, brought diseases, over-population, lower wages, voter fraud and a whole list of horrible things.
http://www.illegalaliens.us/impacts.htm
.....
I'm more interested in reading all the spin about Islam. Most of it is amusing.

 

One of the first hits after your "newmax" search results opens an article, and I am quoting from there:

As you can see North Korea is listed (which is not a Muslim country) alongside Iran. But these two are also among "the entire membership of the United Nations". So your "factual evidence" does not indicates any heavy focus on Muslim countries, rather it signifies how the rest of the world had fed up with previous administration. Unless you come up with serious indicators of Muslim world concentration your claims will remain at the level of unsupported accusations.

Imagine this: If he checked "white" on his census this would create another type of controversy. In fact, he only reflected the realities of his society: Tell me this, if Obama was escaping from police, how would police describe his appearance in order to warn other officials. I'll tell you how: "black/African" or "African American". Obama never refused his white background and told this publicly during the campaign, and you know that like everybody else. He merely stayed within the general cultural acceptance of his society for census. Get real.

Yet you must admit that he is still fighting against Al-Qa'ida which is openly Islamic based organisation. I didn't know he passed a law to forbid to use "Muslim terrorist" description (I bet he didn't, it's your exaggeration). He might have refused to focus only "muslim" side of the terror incident and prefer to see the wider spectrum. It's his choice. And if former administration wanted to develop some hostile relations with the entire Muslim world because of the activities of an organisation, it doesn't help anything; neither to stop terrorism nor to solve other issues in international system.

This is her explanation:

above extract can be found at: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8642.html

I will be honest with you. I am not a woman, but I sometimes despise man because of the treatment they receive from society. I can not blame her, yet her thesis does not provide any concrete evidence that she despises what you call "whitey"...

Stop there: This is the entire history of the modern America. Accept it, if there is anybody over there who can rightly blame "foreign elements" destroying their environment, this should be Indigenous peoples of the Americas. Not some European predecessors. You are complaining about the reality of the America, this is nothing to do with Obama.

Again, this is your personal choice, nothing to do with the claims you raised on Obama and/or his wife.

 

I don't care if Obama calls himself green. He is half white and half black. He had a choice what to check on his census. He chose black. He lied.
We will not stop terrorism until Muslims stop obeying the Koran which commands them to kill infidels.
Read the thesis. You will see how much Michelle despises whitey.