Trump and the Judiciary

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Quantum Quack, Feb 4, 2017.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    That didn't work with Reagan, or W.
     
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  3. Bells Staff Member

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    I think that would be the wrong question.

    Or questions as the case may be.

    If he had won the popular vote, then you may have a point. Alas. Here we are. And you have no point.. Again..

    So you just wish to ignore the popular vote entirely? Okay then...

    Well the people who voted for him and against him are all citizens of the USA.

    And Trump is not supporting your border or securing your nation or your national interests and least of all, its citizens. Far from it.

    What Trump's actions has done is put a giant big target on all of your backs, be it the citizens and interests abroad and at home.

    You see, youreyes, Trump has only ensured that more will radicalise inside and outside of the US.

    You should also be aware that Trump did not ban people from countries that had citizens that actually launched attacks on the US, its citizens and interests. Which means that terrorists supported by the Saudi regime will continue to be allowed to come and go as they please to the US. But then again, Trump has a lot of business interests in Saudi Arabia, so from his perspective, he does not want to risk his personal business (that he is still to divest himself of, by the way).

    When your fellow citizens travel, they are now bigger targets than they were before. Then again, from what I hear, you will all be too busy invading Mexico soon to get the "bad hombres" to even think about traveling anywhere...

    Not any more.

    The issue with Trump's uniform ban across several countries is that he has literally labeled everyone from these countries as being terrorists of one form or another. He has demonised them with one fell swoop of his pen. These people who were coming to the US and were denied entry will simply go elsewhere after this. To wit, after the treatment they received, they are hardly going to want to go to the US to work or be the "good guys who help your economy".

    The bans and his threat to impose import tariffs on goods from Mexico will result in life suddenly becoming more expensive in the US and the scientific sector suffering greatly because of the ban. He is literally making it harder for small businesses in the US to trade with other countries.

    Not to mention the fact that the world finds his actions repulsive, meaning that businesses in other countries and scientific organisations could end up hesitating in doing business or research with their American counterparts because of the sheer uncertainty that Trump has created with his ban.

    That is not "making America great again".

    Of the terror attacks that the US has endured, none of them were by refugees from the countries on the ban list. The Boston bombing were by Americans who were born in Kyrgyzstan.. The nightclub shooting was also by an American, born in New York. The 9/11 attacks were committed by people from Saudi Arabia. Nidal Hasan, was born in Virginia. The Queens hatchet attack was committed by an American man. The San Bernadino terrorist was born in Chicago, of Pakistani descent. His wife was born in Pakistan. I could go on and on here, but you surely get my drift.

    In other words, none of these terrorists were refugees or from any of the countries on the ban list.

    You should be asking yourself why the Saudi's are not on that list, considering..

    If Trump really wanted to "protect the citizens", he would not have imposed such a ridiculous measure. He has literally put a target on your backs.

    And he has literally ensured further radicalisation by Muslims who now feel even more marginalised by the environment that Trump has created in the US and abroad.

    First for what? Safety? He has made you less safe. Jobs? Hah, his ban and threats has only made sure that the US will have issues in fielding scientists and people who work in the technology fields from coming to the US and he has ensured that those who are in the US are now unable to work or do their work properly because if they leave the US for work reasons or even a holiday, they are not allowed back in.

    As for those refugees, many of them helped the US and helped to keep you and your fellow citizens safe. Trump's actions have only ensured that the US will have a much harder time finding people to help them, from acting as interpreters to providing information to your military.. Trump has ensured that you and your fellow citizens are now much less safe. Because why should these people risk their lives to help your country, only to be treated like terrorists and publicly demeaned and labeled as terrorists and denied entry, even those who had already been living in the US?
     
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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    ?

    It isn't the judge's appeal to lose.

    You do understand this, yes?

    Tell that to the many scientists who were born in the countries on the ban list, who are being denied entry to the US, even though they had been living in the US for years...

    The Federal judge is acting in accordance to the law. You remember the law and your constitution, don't you? Think the laws pertaining to immigration and the sections which directly state that the US is not allowed to ban whole countries for migration purposes.

    As for the security information that the President has on hand.. Why, pray tell, was Saudi Arabia not on the list? Oh wait, that's right. He has many hotels and business interests in Saudi Arabia. Or how about Egypt? Same reason.

    None of those countries have before.

    Yet, those that did in the past, are not on the list. Why is that?

    The judge has access to the US Constitution and the law. Trump has acted outside of the law and your Constitution.. The very Constitution he took an oath to uphold.

    And considering that Trump launched an attack that resulted in countless of civilian deaths, not to mention death and injury to American soldiers because he failed to take note of or actually gather intelligence on the village he had US soldiers attack, how confident are you about his access to and ability to read the "security data" from countries that have yet to have citizens launch terror attacks in the US? And if he had access to the "security data", why is Egypt and Saudi Arabia not on the list? Oh yes, his business interests...
     
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  7. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    No kidding
     
  8. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Then why did he goes to such extremes to prevent this very same investigation as conducted by Jill Stein, et al--or, as a "fiscally responsible" conservative, did he deem it necessary to waste millions of tax payers' dollars on this wholly frivolous and (undoubtedly) fruitless endeavor?

    Moreover, why did he choose an idiot who is registered to vote in three states to conduct this investigation?

    Moreober, do you genuinely believe that Trump is "secure" about [i[aything?[/i]

    Could you possibly be more out of touch with reality? When has this stupid egomaniacal fuckwit ever "ceded" to anything?
     
  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    News breaking now: Trumps reinstatement request has been rejected by the US appeals court...
     
  10. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    How Trump reacts now should very clearly demonstrate whether or not he takes his oath of office seriously or not... IMO
    Arguement:
    "Acting solicitor-general Noel Francisco forcefully argued Saturday night (local time) that the President alone had the power to decide who could enter or stay in the United States — an assertion that invokes the wider battle to come over illegal immigration.

    "The power to expel or exclude aliens is a fundamental sovereign attribute, delegated by Congress to the executive branch of government and largely immune from judicial control," the brief said."​
    src: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-05/trumps-travel-ban-appeal-denied-by-us-court/8242780
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  11. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Ever heard of tongue in cheek?
     
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    This a very true and serious point ... IMO Hostility towards USA citizens is increasing every time Trump opens his mouth.. He is a bigger threat to the USA than any terrorist activity could possibly hope to be... IMO
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
  13. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Judging by most of your previous comments, there was absolutely NOTHING to indicate that remark was made "tongue in cheek."
     
  14. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Ho ho, silly Bells! Americans don't travel--and on those rare occasions on which they do, they only go to "safe" places--where there are plenty of other Americans to greatly minimize their odds of being a target.
     
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    13,077

    ......and we can all go back to sleep
    ring a bell?
     
  16. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    23,328
  17. wellwisher Banned Banned

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    5,160
    Trump chose this path to help point out the hypocrisy of the left, The left did not act outraged, when Obama did something very similar. The leftist media never made a big deal about blocking immigration from Iraq, under Obama. Trump is baiting the left, so they show its two faces, in public. The left is already showing is irrational under belly, that was once used to intimidate the silenced people on the right.

    A few days ago, an executive order was issued to get rid of a law that was used by the left to prevent religious organizations and others with tax free status, to engage in political activism against the left. The law is never applied to leftist, like Sharpton or to religious groups who supported leftist issues. The law was used to intimidate those on the right. The law was originally made by then Senator Johnson, to punish his political adversaries. This was extrapolated by the left to intimidate those on the right. Trump, by voiding the law, is letting the sheep out of the political jail, that the left created. What will happen is the left and right demonstrations will appear side-by side so everyone can see the contrast between reasonable and peaceful versus irrational and violent.

    Trump and his team are smart, since the immigration event is allowing the left to rally around what they see as a victory and Trump vulnerability. While they focus on this, hoping to widen Trump's wound, Trump and crew are moving behind the scenes in other places, without too much media focus. Trump will fake left and then go right.

    One of the interesting examples of self defeating leftist strategy is the nomination of Jeff Sessions as Attorney General. This is being delayed by the Democrats even though they do not have the votes to stop it. The delay is to prevent too much right leaning law and order. One thing the Democrats, did not count on, was delaying the nomination of Sessions, means he remains a Senator, whose vote is needed for close nominations, like the Secretary of Education.

    I like the way Trump does things, in the sense of quick implementation of policy, even before all the bugs are worked out. The current example is the immigration ban. This is the best strategy for getting a bureaucracy to move. If you tried to use the rules of bureaucracy and iron out all the details in advance, there would be a lot of wasted motion and foot dragging on all sides. Nobody will be willing to sign off, if there is any risk to their career path. It is all about them. Bureaucracies are designed for emergency situations, with a chain of command and all levels of talent to face any challenge. But during peace time, the same system is very inefficient, with each link in the chain of command, trying hard to weight political consequences.

    What should take months will often take years, during peace time, to make sure they can save face. On the other hand, if Trump takes the responsibility, for a quick act and things go wrong; now we have an emergency. The system will move very fast to resolve the problem, since even half baked solutions, can be a feather in the cap, for any paranoid bureaucrat. It took Trump one day to implement and one day to fine tune, the immigration ban, instead of the normal 1 or more years.
     
    youreyes likes this.
  18. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    wellwisher, with out your constitution you are finished...you do realize this don't you...
     
  19. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Wish you well wellwisher
     
  20. Bells Staff Member

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    Obama did not ban whole populations from other countries from being allowed to set foot in the country... Even those who have visas and permits to enter the US were barred from doing so.

    Obama did not block or ban immigration from Iraq.

    So he is playing 'let's take a dump on the law and the Constitution' just to bait the left?

    What? Does he have the mental capacity of a 5 year old?

    This is not a game and you are saying it is like a little 'ner ner ner' game.. This is affecting people's lives in the worst way imaginable.

    Religious organisations who turn profits should not be getting a tax free status. Nor should religious organisations be allowed to be involved in politics in any way, shape or form.

    We know this is bad because history has taught us just how bad it can be when religious groups participate in the political arena in this way.

    But hey, Trump wants to take the US back to the dark ages in every way imaginable.

    Because a secretive and dishonest Government without any form of transparency or oversight is a good thing, right?

    A wannabe Attorney General showing a complete lack of ethics and demonstrating exceptional conflict of interests is a good thing?

    If people want to know why he should not be the AG, one only has to look at the fact that he has currently placed himself in a position where conflicts of interest abound and shows a lack of ethics.

    Because eeeevveerryyybody wants a leader of a country to just have a 'fuck it' attitude, implementing Executive Orders without any oversight of any kind, without sorting out "the bugs", which results in said Orders affecting thousands to millions of people and creating chaos, confusion and fear.

    Yeah, that's what everyone wants....

    North Korea also has a Dear Leader who just does whatever the fuck he wants without any oversight. Actually, that's kind of how despotic regimes operate. What a great thing to aspire to or want in one's leader..

    Oh, you mean if he tried to do things legally and Constitutionally, then it's just "a lot of wasted motion and foot dragging"?

    At this rate, you may as well take the Constitution and wipe your arse with it. Because your Dear Leader is well on his way to turning it into a worthless document.

    The ban is against the law.

    Literally.

    When Governments operate outside of the law, it leads to chaos. When Governments operate without any form of checks and balances, then it creates and leads to chaos. Trump is doing that at present. He is bypassing Congress to do whatever the hell he wants. He is literally signing off on Orders that are illegal and forces departments to break the law. Do you understand the seriousness of this?

    Not only that, he is devaluing the judicial system, which will result in a complete lack of trust in said judicial system, which again, will lead to chaos.

    Trump has created a Constitutional crisis in the US. And I don't think you have the capacity to understand the dangers of that.

    But Trump isn't taking responsibility. When things go wrong, as they have, he passes the buck and blames everyone else.

    Creating chaos, destroying people's lives, disrupting people's lives, denying thousands of people their legal rights, breaking the law, is not a "feather in the cap" moment.

    It is anything but.

    Fine tune?

    It took multiple court orders, massive protests over a period of a week, utter confusion because the language of the Order was so vague that even people with a legal right to live in the US were barred from entry, costing millions of dollars, caused massive issues internationally, denied people their legal rights, caused issues on the stock market... and it is still not 'fixed'. And you think it was fine tuned?

    It is (and was) absolutely irresponsible.
     
  21. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    How can he be secure that any detected "fraud" wouldn't affect his win? Does he have some special knowledge about the election that no one else has? Why would that be?
     
  22. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    How can Trump know that any detected fraud would not affect his win? Does he have some special knowledge which no one else has? If so, why and how did he come by this "special knowledge"?

    There is nothing wrong with scrutinizing our elections. There is something wrong when you delegitimize those election results without evidence as Trump has repeatedly done.
     
  23. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Whatever, Dude

    (1) Make false statement.

    (2) Change subject.

    You just got caught making shit up. And really, really stupid shit, at that. So in the future when people say your opinion doesn't count because whatever string of words you utter is unreliable, they will always have this incident to point back to as an explanation of where they got that idea.
     

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