Trump signs executive order to restart Dakota and Keystone pipelines

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Kittamaru, Jan 24, 2017.

  1. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    So what do you want. Impeach him before he is one month in the office ? Let him put his program in effect and see if it works.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    There is no need for a trade nor is one implied anywhere. Obama did plenty to forward his favored types of projects with federal funds. But DAP in particular is a private and legal project that such calculus should not come into play in.

    The justification of an abuse of power because it only creates 35 jobs is silly (lots of projects create less or none) or because Obama doesn't like a legal project (again: abuse of power) isn't any better.
    So let me get this straight: you recognize that Obama exceeded his authority, but you think that's ok and that Trump shouldn't correct Obama's overreach of executive authority because Trump will probably also exceed his authority regarding other issues?

    Uh, no. Disagree. Doesn't make Obama's overreach OK and doesn't make Trump's correction of Obama's overreach wrong.

    ....or were you just trying to dodge again?
    Despite efforts, such as the one we're discussing, to keep us dependent on foreign oil and keep oil/gas prices high. We're all very glad Obama failed; our country is better for his failure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    So, in your eyes, then, is it even possible, at all, that Obama was advised by a number of experts, weighed the facts, and decided the the pipeline was, in fact, not in the best interests of the US? That its possible detrimental effects far outweighed its positive ones for the common man?
     
  8. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    It's absolutely possible and I'm certain that's what happened (though you misspelled "in their opinion" - I'm sure just a typo

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    ). Doesn't change the fact that it was a legal project that he shouldn't have been meddling in. Just be glad (as I am) that he didn't take a special interest in your job and abuse his power to get it eliminated!
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,635
    No, you don't have it straight. But that's fine; we are living in a post-factual world now.
    Oil/gas prices are at a six year low. So again you are factually incorrect. Or, to use the politically correct term, you are correctly using alternative facts.
     
  10. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,635
    They included all the jobs created, not the jobs replaced. To put it another way, there are now six million more jobs than there were before.
     
  11. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    1) No, "in there opinion" was superfluous (unless you wish to get into existential arguments...)
    2) Actually, the Federal government is a major rule maker in my job (and I'm utterly TERRIFIED that Trump will eliminate it, and thus undo years of progress!)
    3) "legal project"... so, what, by your determination, the highest authorities in America should not be able to go "Uh, no folks, that's a HUGE fucking mistake, how about you knock it off until we figure out a better way"...?

    If that's the case, why not just disband the Federal Government altogether...?

    1) Kindly provide some evidence that oil and gas prices are high as a result of Obama's efforts (hint, you can't... so retract the statement)
    2) Obama didn't fail... Congress failed. Utterly and completely. Unfortunately, you are too beholden to Republican conditioning and/or propaganda to know the difference... shame on you for being so weak willed, I guess...
     
  12. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    Indeed we do. So fair enough, I'll let you weasel away from that one. We are apparently also....
    ....living in a post literacy world. Please reread and try again.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,635
    So you have no reply. Fair enough.

    Continue to enjoy your low gas prices, courtesy of Obama.
     
    Kittamaru likes this.
  14. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    You've jumped the shark Kitt, so I'm not sure how much I can help you, but jeez, this should be an easy one. A fact is a thing that is true whereas an opinion is a value judgement about (hopefully) facts. For example, it is a fact that the DAP was predicted to create 35 permanent jobs. It is an opinion that that isn't enough to be important.
    Glad to hear it; That explains why you are being irrational here, but at the same time you should harness that fear and consider that that fear was also real for others during Obama's administration.
    Seriously? I'm not sure what you do for a living, but maybe you don't know how construction projects work? Most construction projects are approved locally -- as was most of DAP -- according to local and state construction codes. Certain projects that cross federal land or federally protected land may require permitting from the appropriate agencies. These permits are granted by low-level employees based on codes. No construction permit application ever crosses a Presiden'ts desk!
    Take a toke and calm down, Kitt. You need it.
    As per previous post: reading comprehension. Take a toke, calm down, reread and try again.
    Shame on you for not being able to tell good policy from bad policy or identify mutually exclusive accomplishments and policy or understand the difference between fact and opinion (and you're a moderator!). Blinders are keeping you from being able to judge these things properly even when it comes to contradictions your own positions. Doublethink.
     
  15. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    I would reply with content if you provided content to reply to. You declined: Concession accepted.
    Trolling = concession: Concession accepted.
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,635
    I did. You ignored it, because you can't think of a reply that doesn't make you look stupid. So be it.
     
  17. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    You said: "no, you don't have it straight". It's your position we were discussing. If I don't have it straight, then say what your actual position is. You are dodging and trolling for a reason here, and I think I know what it is...but I'm content to let you keep flopping around on the ground.
     
  18. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,635
    Now you're just embarrassing yourself.
     
  19. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051
    It's really simple, guys:
    1. Do you understand that construction of the DAP will reduce the cost of transportation of oil, enabling it to go to market cheaper and enabling production to be increased? So that means oil prices and domestic supply will be improved with the pipeline vs without the pipeline.

    2. Obama sqashed the pipeline. Therefore, "credit" he gets for the lowering oil prices and increasing supply comes with the great big caveat that he tried to prevent those things.

    It's like trying to lay down a sacrifice bunt and accidentally getting a hit.
     
  20. Russ_Watters Not a Trump supporter... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,051

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    This is perhaps the most totally unglued I've seen you get here. "Reality is painful and scary!"
     
  21. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    It is also a fact that we have seen multiple pipeline spills over the last few years:

    It is also a fact that the DAP was suspended by the US Army Corps of Engineers.
    It is a known fact that there are alternative routes this pipeline could go, instead of risking contamination of the Sioux tribe drinking water.


    Hardly irrational... the DAP will help 35 people. My job employs thousands, and helps tens if not hundreds of thousands more achieve higher education... hardly equivalent.



    Which, perhaps, should say something - why did this get to Obama in the first place. Surely you don't think he just wrung his hands and cackled maniacally and said "Ohhohoho, I'm going to go shut this project down and stop people getting jobs"... something brought it to his attention. Perhaps the protests? Perhaps some shady backdoor deals. Who knows... the simply fact is, you are intent to condemn the man for taking the action that seemed most right. Meanwhile, Trump is taking action on the basis of "he's not Obama"...

    Ah, actually, we know why:

    SO, it is crossing federal land. Makes sense, then, why the federal government is involved.

    That explains a fair bit...
    Perhaps, in a democracy, the will of the people should mean something, rather than the desire of corporate interests...

    In other words - you cannot provide any facts to back your claim. Accepted, your claim is debunked, next.

    Hardly - I simply see the bullshit for what it is. Unfortunately, you are unable to do so, and will continue to lap at the puddle of piss rained down by your Republican overlords at every opportunity.

    *shakes head* There is no point in conversing with you when you have no intention of either conversing in fact OR debating honestly... but, I guess ethical integrity isn't the strong suite of the Republican Party (after all, I don't believe a SINGLE appointee has signed their ethics paperwork...)
     
  22. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    1) Do you understand that the DAP is cutting through historically and culturally important land for the Sioux tribe... and is using Eminent Domain to seize land from farmers...?
    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...-sue-to-block-use-of-eminent-domain/84676294/

    2) Do you understand the risks this pipeline poses to the local environment? Perhaps, just perhaps, we should find a better way... or come up with a way to better monitor these pipelines to stop these disastrous spills?

    3) Perhaps, just perhaps, instead of trying to bandaid the problem... we should get away from our reliance on Oil? After all, we have seen repeatedly how OPEC can basically dictate the costs of a barrel of oil...

    As of January 2015:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...ant-to-take-credit-for-low-gas-prices/384792/
    I also have to question - where is the oil from the DAP and the KXL pipelines going to be used? From what I've read, the KXL is primarily going to be exported...

    DAP is an attempt to replace rail and truck shipments of oil... so while it may create a handful of permanent jobs, how many does it stand to cut? Or, do you presuppose those drivers hauling oil will be able to simply pick up employment hauling something else (a possibility - I'm not up to speed on the midwest trucking industry)
     
  23. timojin Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,252
    Question : Do we get Oil from Canada to the midwest Illinois area ?
     

Share This Page